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You're doing a bit of slight of hand on Windows support. Windows doesn't "support" the DirectX version shipped by your GPU vendor either. The drivers shipped b

You're doing a bit of slight of hand on Windows support. Windows doesn't "support" the DirectX version shipped by your GPU vendor either. The drivers shipped by your GPU vendor, and all the APIs provided by them, are supported by your GPU vendor. So the real thing we're talking about is hardware vendors. Nvidia and AMD support Vulkan, OpenGL, and DirectX where applicable. Apple only supports Metal. The console vendors have always had weird variant APIs based on the open standards but not identical, except MS where the console is very close to desktop Direct X. On mobile hardware vendors ubiquitously support OpenGL ES and there's widespread support for Vulkan. So it's complicated. In the desktop space, as a percentage of market share, Vulkan is extremely widely supported. Same with mobile. Consoles have always been an odd man out. So Apple, which doesn't sell a console, is absolutely breaking from the pack in the markets they target.

gjsman-1000 4y ago
> Same with mobile. If you consider 60% of Android users, and 0% of iOS users, "widely supported," sure. That's less than half of mobile phones in use right now, making Vulkan the odd-one-out on mobile as well. You certainly can't build a mobile app right now that only uses Vulkan without cutting out huge parts of your audience. > So Apple, which doesn't sell a console, is absolutely breaking from the pack in the markets they target. Apple wants the same API on all of their devices, and I can't blame them. They are the odd-ones-out in Desktop only. But does that really matter? If you are making a game only for Desktop, namely Windows, and weren't going to just use DirectX for some reason, it does (which I think, nowadays, is a rare situation). But if you are targeting any game consoles, or any mobile phones, you're adding multiple graphics APIs anyway and Metal is just another one.
- nickelpro 4y ago
  > If you consider 60% of Android users, and 0% of iOS users, "widely supported," sure. But that's what we're talking about, if it weren't for Apple Vulkan would be a near ubiquitous desktop and mobile API. Apple is the one standing in the way of that. If Vulkan were a near ubiquitous mobile and desktop API, _maybe_ the console vendors would be more willing to tolerate it.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    > if it weren't for Apple Vulkan would be a near ubiquitous desktop and mobile API Ubiquitous desktop: Windows Uniquitous gaming consoles: XBox and Playstation Ubiquitous phones (worldwide): Android APPLE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR VULKAN NOT BEING EVERYWHERE (not in Windows, not on XBox, not on Playstation, not on 40% of Android devices)
    - BlueTemplar 4y ago
      Microsoft can't be expected to just give up the gatekeeping that is DirectX on their own (well, maaaybe if antitrust was more effective ??). Sony only cares about their console(s), so they prefer to focus on optimization rather than compatibility. (While Nintendo cares more about gameplay than graphics.) Isn't that 40% of Android devices old / very cheap ? Apple is one of the biggest (and especially, most profitable) companies in the world, and with great power comes...
      - dmitriid 4y ago
        So "Microsoft can't be expected", "Sony doesn't care" but we should only blame Apple. Gotcha. Because only Apple has the power and hence the responsibility, not the tiny helpless companies Microsoft and Sony (~99% of consoles, 76% of desktop). Edit: don't forget, Apple absolutely must support Vulkan (and others don't) because Metal is proprietary and non-cross-platform (just like any other graphics API on all major platforms) even though Vulkan appeared two years later than Metal (but neither Microsoft nor Sony are expected to drop their APIs which also appeared earlier than Vulkan). Did I get that logic right?

gjsman-1000 4y ago

> Same with mobile. If you consider 60% of Android users, and 0% of iOS users, "widely supported," sure. That's less than half of mobile phones in use right now, making Vulkan the odd-one-out on mobile as well. You certainly can't build a mobile app right now that only uses Vulkan without cutting out huge parts of your audience. > So Apple, which doesn't sell a console, is absolutely breaking from the pack in the markets they target. Apple wants the same API on all of their devices, and I can't blame them. They are the odd-ones-out in Desktop only. But does that really matter? If you are making a game only for Desktop, namely Windows, and weren't going to just use DirectX for some reason, it does (which I think, nowadays, is a rare situation). But if you are targeting any game consoles, or any mobile phones, you're adding multiple graphics APIs anyway and Metal is just another one.

nickelpro 4y ago
> If you consider 60% of Android users, and 0% of iOS users, "widely supported," sure. But that's what we're talking about, if it weren't for Apple Vulkan would be a near ubiquitous desktop and mobile API. Apple is the one standing in the way of that. If Vulkan were a near ubiquitous mobile and desktop API, _maybe_ the console vendors would be more willing to tolerate it.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > if it weren't for Apple Vulkan would be a near ubiquitous desktop and mobile API Ubiquitous desktop: Windows Uniquitous gaming consoles: XBox and Playstation Ubiquitous phones (worldwide): Android APPLE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR VULKAN NOT BEING EVERYWHERE (not in Windows, not on XBox, not on Playstation, not on 40% of Android devices)
  - BlueTemplar 4y ago
    Microsoft can't be expected to just give up the gatekeeping that is DirectX on their own (well, maaaybe if antitrust was more effective ??). Sony only cares about their console(s), so they prefer to focus on optimization rather than compatibility. (While Nintendo cares more about gameplay than graphics.) Isn't that 40% of Android devices old / very cheap ? Apple is one of the biggest (and especially, most profitable) companies in the world, and with great power comes...
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      So "Microsoft can't be expected", "Sony doesn't care" but we should only blame Apple. Gotcha. Because only Apple has the power and hence the responsibility, not the tiny helpless companies Microsoft and Sony (~99% of consoles, 76% of desktop). Edit: don't forget, Apple absolutely must support Vulkan (and others don't) because Metal is proprietary and non-cross-platform (just like any other graphics API on all major platforms) even though Vulkan appeared two years later than Metal (but neither Microsoft nor Sony are expected to drop their APIs which also appeared earlier than Vulkan). Did I get that logic right?