4 ms·

iPhones are crazy expensive in Brazil [0], but a 15% import tariff doesn’t explain why Brazilians have to pay twice the price. [0] https://www.nukeni.com/en/ap

iPhones are crazy expensive in Brazil [0], but a 15% import tariff doesn’t explain why Brazilians have to pay twice the price. [0] https://www.nukeni.com/en/apple/iphone/iphone14-pro-max https://www.nukeni.com/en/apple/iphone/iphone14-pro-max

RicardoLuis0 4y ago
just about any electronics here in brazil are ~2x the price, be it phones, computers, computer parts (CPUs, GPUs, MOBOs, etc), or anything else (not just apple, any brand)
- cassianoleal 4y ago
  This is true. When the PS5 was launched, the prices in Brazil were (they still are but that's beside the point) ridiculously high. Gamers complained, in an incredibly amateurish PR stnt Sony decided to launch a campaign justifying the high prices on taxes. Obviously, people decided to calculate this. Even taking the PS5's RRP in the US or Europe (as opposed to cost) and applying Brazilian taxes on top, the final figures were still around 40% lower than what they were charging.
  - alister 4y ago
    > applying Brazilian taxes on top, the final figures were still around 40% lower than what they were charging So taxes are only part of the explantion. Who do you suppose is responsible for the rest of the much higher prices? Are Sony and Apple pricing their products way higher for Brazil? Is it the importers? Or are the retailers simply charging what the Brazilian market will bear? It should be possible for some enterprising Brazilians to import Sony and Apple products from elsewhere in the world, pay the Brazilian taxes, and still sell for less than the current retailers, which would eventually bring down the prices. I can't understand why that doesn't happen.
    - cassianoleal 4y ago
      > Who do you suppose is responsible for the rest of the much higher prices? In the case of Apple, they sell them directly so I don't think it's anyone but themselves. Not sure about Sony and others. > Or are the retailers simply charging what the Brazilian market will bear? This is certainly a factor. Similarly, cars are way overpriced in Brazil, simply because people will pay. > It should be possible for some enterprising Brazilians to import Sony and Apple products from elsewhere in the world They do, but usually small scale. I know people who have purchased Apple computers for half the Brazilian price from sellers on Mercado Livre (South American eBay).
iagocds 4y ago
Is not only the import tarrif, we also pay federal tax around 10% and state tax around 17% and those are couting the import tarrif and the cost of shipping for it's base. I also want to add here that 90% of salary workers in Brazil receive less than R$3500 as salary each month, before income tax, so for buying even an iPhone 14 you need to save almost 3x your montly wage.
- alister 4y ago
  But 15% + 10% + 17% adds up to 42%. But Apple products are often 80-100% more expensive in Brazil compared to the USA and Canada What accounts for the rest of the difference?
  - iagocds 4y ago
    Actually using these values it should be closer to 60% as the states taxes is over the import tax and the federal tax. It should be like this: (15%*10%)/(1-17%). Yes taxation in Brazil is confusing. As for the 40% remaining it should also have reservation for financing as it is common in Brazil to offer 12x flat rate financing on purchases even thought we have around 10% inflation annually and high default rate. But i agree that around 20% to 15% in this 40% gap should be additional profit over Brazilian operations.

RicardoLuis0 4y ago

just about any electronics here in brazil are ~2x the price, be it phones, computers, computer parts (CPUs, GPUs, MOBOs, etc), or anything else (not just apple, any brand)

cassianoleal 4y ago
This is true. When the PS5 was launched, the prices in Brazil were (they still are but that's beside the point) ridiculously high. Gamers complained, in an incredibly amateurish PR stnt Sony decided to launch a campaign justifying the high prices on taxes. Obviously, people decided to calculate this. Even taking the PS5's RRP in the US or Europe (as opposed to cost) and applying Brazilian taxes on top, the final figures were still around 40% lower than what they were charging.
- alister 4y ago
  > applying Brazilian taxes on top, the final figures were still around 40% lower than what they were charging So taxes are only part of the explantion. Who do you suppose is responsible for the rest of the much higher prices? Are Sony and Apple pricing their products way higher for Brazil? Is it the importers? Or are the retailers simply charging what the Brazilian market will bear? It should be possible for some enterprising Brazilians to import Sony and Apple products from elsewhere in the world, pay the Brazilian taxes, and still sell for less than the current retailers, which would eventually bring down the prices. I can't understand why that doesn't happen.
  - cassianoleal 4y ago
    > Who do you suppose is responsible for the rest of the much higher prices? In the case of Apple, they sell them directly so I don't think it's anyone but themselves. Not sure about Sony and others. > Or are the retailers simply charging what the Brazilian market will bear? This is certainly a factor. Similarly, cars are way overpriced in Brazil, simply because people will pay. > It should be possible for some enterprising Brazilians to import Sony and Apple products from elsewhere in the world They do, but usually small scale. I know people who have purchased Apple computers for half the Brazilian price from sellers on Mercado Livre (South American eBay).

iagocds 4y ago

Is not only the import tarrif, we also pay federal tax around 10% and state tax around 17% and those are couting the import tarrif and the cost of shipping for it's base. I also want to add here that 90% of salary workers in Brazil receive less than R$3500 as salary each month, before income tax, so for buying even an iPhone 14 you need to save almost 3x your montly wage.

alister 4y ago
But 15% + 10% + 17% adds up to 42%. But Apple products are often 80-100% more expensive in Brazil compared to the USA and Canada What accounts for the rest of the difference?
- iagocds 4y ago
  Actually using these values it should be closer to 60% as the states taxes is over the import tax and the federal tax. It should be like this: (15%*10%)/(1-17%). Yes taxation in Brazil is confusing. As for the 40% remaining it should also have reservation for financing as it is common in Brazil to offer 12x flat rate financing on purchases even thought we have around 10% inflation annually and high default rate. But i agree that around 20% to 15% in this 40% gap should be additional profit over Brazilian operations.