4 ms·

Most people buy their phone from a network provider / carrier. And when someone goes wrong, customers complain to the network - not the manufacturer. That's wh

by edent 4y ago

Most people buy their phone from a network provider / carrier. And when someone goes wrong, customers complain to the network - not the manufacturer. That's why networks test firmware. Because they face the complaints and chargebacks when the phone breaks. Mobile networks are, in effect, private networks. Your employer may prohibit certain devices from connecting to their in-office LAN. Or they may insist on specific devices which they know work well with their equipment. Mobile networks can ban equipment which is stolen. I assume they can also de-register an IMEI if the handset if interfering with the network. Most countries have a regulator who can issue fines for disrupting the airwaves. But they are often unable to investigate non-systemic issues.

moffkalast 4y ago
Perhaps staying inside the network is more common in the US, but from a European perspective it's unlikely for a device to stay at one provider at all times. Half the time you're roaming at another network due to missing towers or if you drive 100km and end up in a different country you won't see your original provider at all until you return. As such, all networks must support all devices for the system to retain some shred of functionality and standardisation is key. Providers can't just pick and choose what to support if they want to maintain credibility. I would imagine it makes far more sense for some international org to do reviews, but at the absence of that the manufacturers themselves need to guarantee compatibility or they will be pushed out of the market by those that do.
- MichaelZuo 4y ago
  I'm fairly certain European networks can deny roaming at any time to any specific out-of network phone without giving a formal reason.
  - cycomanic 4y ago
    I would assume that will run afoul of EU regulations which forced the providers to enable roaming without additional costs. If providers could just deny roaming phones they could use that to circumvent the regulations (which are unpopular with network operators).
    - MichaelZuo 4y ago
      I don't see how it could be? In the case of a phone with defective emergency calling software/firmware/hardware they must have a means of detecting and blocking such phones from making spurious calls, right? If they already have this capacity in place then detecting and blocking out-of-network phones from roaming should be trivial.
  - FooBarWidget 4y ago
    Not so in Netherlands. All networks accept out-of-network phones. I also never had any problems in Germany, Belgium, France or UK.
- pmontra 4y ago
  Or you switch to a better plan of another carrier (done,) or you own a dual SIM phone with SIMs of two different carriers (I do.)
nixgeek 4y ago
I’m not sure this isn’t a dated take, unfortunately. Perhaps this would have been an accurate set of statements back in 2012 or so. 1/ Roaming is a big factor (before COVID, and now in a post-COVID world too). I’ve spent more time on carrier networks which are NOT my ‘home network’ in the past 3-4 weeks than not, in many different countries, managed by many different regulators. I didn’t need a new phone for each country, a software update for my phone, instead it just worked. 2/ I’m not unique in buying devices from the manufacturer directly - specifically, I use the iPhone Upgrade Program. Lots of friends buy direct from Apple or via electronics stores like Best Buy but every 2-3 years. I hear very few people who “got their phone from Verizon” (but I’m sure this still happens, too!). [1] 3/ At least in the Apple ecosystem these days theft and loss is handled with Activation Lock, which is IMO more effective than IMEI blocking because it works regardless of cellular network and without relying on any assumptions networks may share a blocklist of reported stolen IMEIs amongst themselves. [1] https://9to5mac.com/2020/10/29/iphone-upgrade-program-popularity/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/10/29/iphone-upgrade-program-popula...
Fnoord 4y ago
> Most people buy their phone from a network provider / carrier. In USA perhaps, the mobile telcos are powerful there, yes. Which is why Nokia never got popular there. Here in EU, its gone down. Especially here in NL. > And when someone goes wrong, customers complain to the network - not the manufacturer. If they bought it at the mobile telco; of course. I mean, they bought it from that store, not the manufacturer. If I buy my smartphone at Amazon, Amazon is inclined to give me support. At least, that's how the law works here in NL, YMMV.

by edent 4y ago

moffkalast 4y ago

Perhaps staying inside the network is more common in the US, but from a European perspective it's unlikely for a device to stay at one provider at all times. Half the time you're roaming at another network due to missing towers or if you drive 100km and end up in a different country you won't see your original provider at all until you return. As such, all networks must support all devices for the system to retain some shred of functionality and standardisation is key. Providers can't just pick and choose what to support if they want to maintain credibility. I would imagine it makes far more sense for some international org to do reviews, but at the absence of that the manufacturers themselves need to guarantee compatibility or they will be pushed out of the market by those that do.

MichaelZuo 4y ago
I'm fairly certain European networks can deny roaming at any time to any specific out-of network phone without giving a formal reason.
- cycomanic 4y ago
  I would assume that will run afoul of EU regulations which forced the providers to enable roaming without additional costs. If providers could just deny roaming phones they could use that to circumvent the regulations (which are unpopular with network operators).
  - MichaelZuo 4y ago
    I don't see how it could be? In the case of a phone with defective emergency calling software/firmware/hardware they must have a means of detecting and blocking such phones from making spurious calls, right? If they already have this capacity in place then detecting and blocking out-of-network phones from roaming should be trivial.
- FooBarWidget 4y ago
  Not so in Netherlands. All networks accept out-of-network phones. I also never had any problems in Germany, Belgium, France or UK.
pmontra 4y ago
Or you switch to a better plan of another carrier (done,) or you own a dual SIM phone with SIMs of two different carriers (I do.)

nixgeek 4y ago

I’m not sure this isn’t a dated take, unfortunately. Perhaps this would have been an accurate set of statements back in 2012 or so. 1/ Roaming is a big factor (before COVID, and now in a post-COVID world too). I’ve spent more time on carrier networks which are NOT my ‘home network’ in the past 3-4 weeks than not, in many different countries, managed by many different regulators. I didn’t need a new phone for each country, a software update for my phone, instead it just worked. 2/ I’m not unique in buying devices from the manufacturer directly - specifically, I use the iPhone Upgrade Program. Lots of friends buy direct from Apple or via electronics stores like Best Buy but every 2-3 years. I hear very few people who “got their phone from Verizon” (but I’m sure this still happens, too!). [1] 3/ At least in the Apple ecosystem these days theft and loss is handled with Activation Lock, which is IMO more effective than IMEI blocking because it works regardless of cellular network and without relying on any assumptions networks may share a blocklist of reported stolen IMEIs amongst themselves. [1] https://9to5mac.com/2020/10/29/iphone-upgrade-program-popularity/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/10/29/iphone-upgrade-program-popula...

Fnoord 4y ago

> Most people buy their phone from a network provider / carrier. In USA perhaps, the mobile telcos are powerful there, yes. Which is why Nokia never got popular there. Here in EU, its gone down. Especially here in NL. > And when someone goes wrong, customers complain to the network - not the manufacturer. If they bought it at the mobile telco; of course. I mean, they bought it from that store, not the manufacturer. If I buy my smartphone at Amazon, Amazon is inclined to give me support. At least, that's how the law works here in NL, YMMV.