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"massive ingestion of fishing gear and plastics" I think there's an elephantine clue in there somewhere. A high proportion of marine platics, and especially o

"massive ingestion of fishing gear and plastics" I think there's an elephantine clue in there somewhere. A high proportion of marine platics, and especially ones most dangerous to sea life are fishing gear. Fishing kills the oceans both directly and indirectly. It's unsustainable, and we should stop doing it. As for the rest, collection is by far the biggest problem, and most of the pollution comes from seaboard cities in developing nations. Sure the manufacturers should be made responsible for the ultimate fate of their products, but it is not their problem or fault alone, though I think it's fair to say they've used every trick possible to push all responsibility on to others so far.

andyjohnson0 4y ago
A couple of relevant links: Recycling was a lie to sell more plastic, recycling industry veteran says: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24714880 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24714880 Ten Rivers Contribute Most of the Plastic in the Oceans: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19908033 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19908033
blitzar 4y ago
> most of the pollution comes from seaboard cities in developing nations. I also notice an disgusting amount of rubbish disposed of on the nearest pavement in developed nations.
- tm-guimaraes 4y ago
  Yes, that is true, some developed nations cities have disgusting pavements. Still, that doesn’t compare to every report I heard from people I know personally that went to visit, or had to work, or has families/grow in our former colonies. The waste management is orders of magnitude worse. Yes , people complain about Rome and SF streets, but those are nothing compared to the reports i’ve heard. It’s another circle of hell entirely. And remember that most of the world population is from developing nations (well I guess it depends on how you classify china and india, but those are only starting to care about environment now, for the last decade their focus was rapid industrialization, which is the biggest crime to the environment) Regarding “developed” vs “developing” categorization, I guess most people think about it differently, everyone has their bias and there’s lots of politics involved in the terms. But i would do the divide on whether sustainability/environment is one of the most constant political topics in the country, and most major political parties have to engage with it (to different levels). This means food and shelter are secure (even if prices are hard on people)
- jacknews 4y ago
  Of course, but honestly nothing compared to many developing cities, from first hand experience. And the developed pavement rubbish is collected, or if it's washed into the sewers, it's then filtered out before going to the river/sea. Not so in many developing nations, where it's often either thrown directly into the rivers, or washed there by heavy rains.
  - blitzar 4y ago
    > it's then filtered out before going to the river/sea 31 Mar 2022 — Water companies discharged raw sewage into English rivers 372,533 times last year, a slight reduction on the previous year. They dont even filter the sewerage before dumping it in rivers. What mades you think that they are picking out all the other detritus?
    - jacknews 4y ago
      This is on an entirely different scale, and not only that, the UK water companies are under investigation for their practice of dumping sewage during storm overflow situations; it may be nefarious, it may simply be inadequate capacity. IMHO it's unlikely, unless they are being exceptionally brazen, that they're skipping the easiest and most easily observable step in sewage processing, filtering out solids.
    - legalthrowawy 4y ago
      Exception proving the rule? There’s regulation, there’s fines, there’s enforcement. Waste management companies do try to avoid those, and in some cases with big success. But some business trying their ways out of the laws, is very different from there being no law, no enforcement, no reporting, and bad management just being normal. I know people that worked in waste management companies, and lawsuits for bad management are real, and most operations run legally, but there is just huge amount of money to in some ocasions break the law. So the big shots call the big shot. Immoral and unethical move, but most people working there don’t get enough opportunities outside those companies so , they just follow along the big shot call. I do know some that left because of not wanting to lie if a lawsuit came. “I want to sleep at night with clean conscience “ . There’s plenty of FAANG engineers with plenty of opportunities outside, but it’s better to do some very ethical questionable stuff there. The thing is, you can only hide illegal stuff if most of the work you do is legal. But what if you don’t need to hide because there’s no laws or no enforcement? That’s the scenario on plenty of developing nations, the scale of bad waste disposal is just different. Same with “recycle your clothes” that some fast fashion brands do and pay with vouchers, is just green washing marketing shit to just burn them in international waters. Free trade between the worlds nations is very pretty, but when accountability is very different in different country you get shit like that. Just outsource illegal stuff. ( on a side note There’s plenty of FAANG engineers with plenty of opportunities outside, but it’s better to do some very ethical questionable stuff there. sure if your visa depends on the job it’s one thing, but plenty can just leave, but paycheck is too good or lifestyle was so inflated, that questionable development is the only thing that pays the bills)
- orangepurple 4y ago
  This video talks about air pollution but pay attention to the things people throw on the ground https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC4saZg6sG0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC4saZg6sG0
- orangepurple 4y ago
  Plastic and organic trash emanates from the coastlines of southeast Asian countries like energetic particles are emitted by the sun. Lots of it and in every direction.
t0rt01se 4y ago
> most of the pollution comes from seaboard cities in developing nations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_wise_monkeys https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_wise_monkeys
otikik 4y ago
Without some citations, this is just a internet claim. I will note that it would be very convenient to a lot of big industries which happen to have very well funded marketing teams if what you wrote was true.
- jacknews 4y ago
  I'm not going to write a paper every time I comment. I don't see how your insinuation that my comments are pro plastic-corp-marketing is valid in any way. I've said the fishing industry should end. And that manufacturers should be responsible for the life-cycle of their products, but that of course the rest of society needs to play their part in that, unless we force coke etc to employ garbage-collection departments, etc, etc. Or we can just ban plastics entirely, but honestly, plastic is used for a reason, and for example a plastic bag is highly efficient, especially when it's used multiple times (as all mine are), and then as temporary storage, bin liners, etc. I'd like also to note that although the headline is 'Coke', which I assume is mostly PET bottles (quite recycleable), Unilever is also in the list. IMHO cosmetics, soaps, detergents are the actual worst manufacturers when it comes to plastic waste, and seem to be avoiding the spotlight, compared to plastic bags, straws, etc.
  - otikik 4y ago
    A simple “according to xxx” would have sufficed, no need for an essay. I’ve heard the same thing, I don’t know from where, and that makes me suspect. I wish it where true, it would mean we have to change 1 single industry instead of all manufacturing. The pictures I have seen from The Great Plastic Texas-sized zone didn’t look like fishnets. I don’t think you are pro-Coca-Cola but I do think that message being out there benefits them.
    - jacknews 4y ago
      One recent report https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/07/invisible-killer-ghost-fishing-gear-deadliest-marine-plastic https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/07/invisibl... And I'm not saying this is the only problem, far from it. We do still have to deal with consumer plastic waste, but we can't just blame manufacturers for that, as the main problem is that it isn't collected properly. Sure, manufacturers should make less (but we should demand less), make it more easily collected, and be held responsible for the fate of their products; maybe taxed based on re-useability, etc. But it's quite simplistic and just misses the real issues to blame coke for dead whales.

andyjohnson0 4y ago

A couple of relevant links: Recycling was a lie to sell more plastic, recycling industry veteran says: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24714880 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24714880 Ten Rivers Contribute Most of the Plastic in the Oceans: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19908033 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19908033

blitzar 4y ago

> most of the pollution comes from seaboard cities in developing nations. I also notice an disgusting amount of rubbish disposed of on the nearest pavement in developed nations.

tm-guimaraes 4y ago
Yes, that is true, some developed nations cities have disgusting pavements. Still, that doesn’t compare to every report I heard from people I know personally that went to visit, or had to work, or has families/grow in our former colonies. The waste management is orders of magnitude worse. Yes , people complain about Rome and SF streets, but those are nothing compared to the reports i’ve heard. It’s another circle of hell entirely. And remember that most of the world population is from developing nations (well I guess it depends on how you classify china and india, but those are only starting to care about environment now, for the last decade their focus was rapid industrialization, which is the biggest crime to the environment) Regarding “developed” vs “developing” categorization, I guess most people think about it differently, everyone has their bias and there’s lots of politics involved in the terms. But i would do the divide on whether sustainability/environment is one of the most constant political topics in the country, and most major political parties have to engage with it (to different levels). This means food and shelter are secure (even if prices are hard on people)
jacknews 4y ago
Of course, but honestly nothing compared to many developing cities, from first hand experience. And the developed pavement rubbish is collected, or if it's washed into the sewers, it's then filtered out before going to the river/sea. Not so in many developing nations, where it's often either thrown directly into the rivers, or washed there by heavy rains.
- blitzar 4y ago
  > it's then filtered out before going to the river/sea 31 Mar 2022 — Water companies discharged raw sewage into English rivers 372,533 times last year, a slight reduction on the previous year. They dont even filter the sewerage before dumping it in rivers. What mades you think that they are picking out all the other detritus?
  - jacknews 4y ago
    This is on an entirely different scale, and not only that, the UK water companies are under investigation for their practice of dumping sewage during storm overflow situations; it may be nefarious, it may simply be inadequate capacity. IMHO it's unlikely, unless they are being exceptionally brazen, that they're skipping the easiest and most easily observable step in sewage processing, filtering out solids.
  - legalthrowawy 4y ago
    Exception proving the rule? There’s regulation, there’s fines, there’s enforcement. Waste management companies do try to avoid those, and in some cases with big success. But some business trying their ways out of the laws, is very different from there being no law, no enforcement, no reporting, and bad management just being normal. I know people that worked in waste management companies, and lawsuits for bad management are real, and most operations run legally, but there is just huge amount of money to in some ocasions break the law. So the big shots call the big shot. Immoral and unethical move, but most people working there don’t get enough opportunities outside those companies so , they just follow along the big shot call. I do know some that left because of not wanting to lie if a lawsuit came. “I want to sleep at night with clean conscience “ . There’s plenty of FAANG engineers with plenty of opportunities outside, but it’s better to do some very ethical questionable stuff there. The thing is, you can only hide illegal stuff if most of the work you do is legal. But what if you don’t need to hide because there’s no laws or no enforcement? That’s the scenario on plenty of developing nations, the scale of bad waste disposal is just different. Same with “recycle your clothes” that some fast fashion brands do and pay with vouchers, is just green washing marketing shit to just burn them in international waters. Free trade between the worlds nations is very pretty, but when accountability is very different in different country you get shit like that. Just outsource illegal stuff. ( on a side note There’s plenty of FAANG engineers with plenty of opportunities outside, but it’s better to do some very ethical questionable stuff there. sure if your visa depends on the job it’s one thing, but plenty can just leave, but paycheck is too good or lifestyle was so inflated, that questionable development is the only thing that pays the bills)
orangepurple 4y ago
This video talks about air pollution but pay attention to the things people throw on the ground https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC4saZg6sG0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC4saZg6sG0
orangepurple 4y ago
Plastic and organic trash emanates from the coastlines of southeast Asian countries like energetic particles are emitted by the sun. Lots of it and in every direction.

t0rt01se 4y ago

> most of the pollution comes from seaboard cities in developing nations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_wise_monkeys https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_wise_monkeys

otikik 4y ago

Without some citations, this is just a internet claim. I will note that it would be very convenient to a lot of big industries which happen to have very well funded marketing teams if what you wrote was true.

jacknews 4y ago
I'm not going to write a paper every time I comment. I don't see how your insinuation that my comments are pro plastic-corp-marketing is valid in any way. I've said the fishing industry should end. And that manufacturers should be responsible for the life-cycle of their products, but that of course the rest of society needs to play their part in that, unless we force coke etc to employ garbage-collection departments, etc, etc. Or we can just ban plastics entirely, but honestly, plastic is used for a reason, and for example a plastic bag is highly efficient, especially when it's used multiple times (as all mine are), and then as temporary storage, bin liners, etc. I'd like also to note that although the headline is 'Coke', which I assume is mostly PET bottles (quite recycleable), Unilever is also in the list. IMHO cosmetics, soaps, detergents are the actual worst manufacturers when it comes to plastic waste, and seem to be avoiding the spotlight, compared to plastic bags, straws, etc.
- otikik 4y ago
  A simple “according to xxx” would have sufficed, no need for an essay. I’ve heard the same thing, I don’t know from where, and that makes me suspect. I wish it where true, it would mean we have to change 1 single industry instead of all manufacturing. The pictures I have seen from The Great Plastic Texas-sized zone didn’t look like fishnets. I don’t think you are pro-Coca-Cola but I do think that message being out there benefits them.
  - jacknews 4y ago
    One recent report https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/07/invisible-killer-ghost-fishing-gear-deadliest-marine-plastic https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/07/invisibl... And I'm not saying this is the only problem, far from it. We do still have to deal with consumer plastic waste, but we can't just blame manufacturers for that, as the main problem is that it isn't collected properly. Sure, manufacturers should make less (but we should demand less), make it more easily collected, and be held responsible for the fate of their products; maybe taxed based on re-useability, etc. But it's quite simplistic and just misses the real issues to blame coke for dead whales.