5 ms·

This whole "movement" is really strange to me, because, as always, this depends on where you live. Where I live, this is entirely illegal. So, to me, it always

by erinnh 4y ago

This whole "movement" is really strange to me, because, as always, this depends on where you live. Where I live, this is entirely illegal. So, to me, it always is just a different word for fraud. Then again, we have actual employment contracts where a whole lot of legalese will say what restrictions each party of the contract (employer and employee) has. I am under the impression that employment contracts arent really a thing in the USA.

sneak 4y ago
Just because your jurisdiction outlawed it, does not make it fraud. Fraud has a definition.
- erinnh 4y ago
  Yes it does have a definition. One of them (literal translation is "working hour fraud") is working less hours than you need to as per your contract.
Dave3of5 4y ago
> Where I live, this is entirely illegal It's illegal to work two jobs ? Are you sure about that? Can you point to a specific law ? It may be against the employment contract but I think it's totally wrong to say it's illegal. That would mean the government has legislated against having two jobs. > I am under the impression that employment contracts arent really a thing in the USA. I think for most tech companies in the USA they actually do have contracts. The contract will state things like medical benefits ...etc. They are less common for working in a local bar or suchlike.
- erinnh 4y ago
  I was talking about full time jobs, which these "overemployed" stories generally talk about. Its technically legal to work two jobs, but in reality it simply isnt because of employee protections. Such as its illegal to work more than 40 hours average in my country. Company cant force you to work more than 40 hours per average, and neither can you choose to. Its ok to work 50 hours in one week, but you need to work less than 40 hours another then. Its also illegal to work more than 10 hours in one day. Or have less than 11 hours between job days. (Ie. you cant stop working at 11pm and start working again at 9am the next day. Theres many other issues, such as you arent allowed to work while on holiday. So you cant work a different job while on holiday from your other job. Or the fact that basically 100% of employment contracts say the amount of hours you have to work. And telling your employer you did without doing so is fraud.
  - Dave3of5 4y ago
    > Such as its illegal to work more than 40 hours average You are also confused about this law. In the EU you can't force employees to work more than these hours but it's up to the employee they can agree to work more hours if they want to. It's NOT illegal to work more than those hours. > Its also illegal to work more than 10 hours in one day Wrong again the law is that a company can't force you to work these hours. That's different from being illegal for you to work more than those hours. > Or the fact that basically 100% of employment contracts say the amount of hours you have to work. And telling your employer you did without doing so is fraud It's a breach of contract NOT fraud. You really need to actually read the rules on these protections as I think you're misinformed.
    - erinnh 4y ago
      That might be true in the EU, I have no idea. But not in Germany. An employee cannot choose to work longer than that. I still was slightly wrong. The average work hours cannot exceed 48 hours a week. But an employee is not allowed to work more than that. And it very definitely is fraud. It’s called Arbeitszeitbetrug, the „Betrug“ in that word is fraud. Source: (in German) https://www.nebenjob.de/ratgeber/3164-maximale-arbeitszeit-wie-viele-stunden-im-nebenjob-sind-zusatzlich-erlaubt https://www.nebenjob.de/ratgeber/3164-maximale-arbeitszeit-w... Ill translate the relevant part for you (you can use DeepL or something if you want to crosscheck): "Für Arbeitnehmer mit Hauptjob und Nebenjob gelten diese Arbeitszeiten - Man darf in der Regel maximal 48 Stunden die Woche arbeiten. - Wenn man (zeitweilig) die Stunden pro Tag erhöht, ist eine wöchentliche Arbeitszeit von bis zu 60 Stunden möglich, wenn innerhalb eines halben Jahres die Wochenarbeitszeit auf durchschnittlich 48 Stunden ausgeglichen wird." Translation: The following working hours are relevant for employees with main and sidejob: - You are only allowed to work maximum 48 hours per week on average - If one decides (temporarily) to increase the time worked per day, a maximum 60 hours per week is possible, as long as the average worked hours stay at 48 hours per week in a 6 month timeframe. And source for Arbeitszeitbetrug being fraud: https://beratung.de/recht/ratgeber/arbeitszeitbetrug-definition-nachweis-und-konsequenzen_fncgsd https://beratung.de/recht/ratgeber/arbeitszeitbetrug-definit...
      - 4y ago

by erinnh 4y ago

sneak 4y ago

Just because your jurisdiction outlawed it, does not make it fraud. Fraud has a definition.

erinnh 4y ago
Yes it does have a definition. One of them (literal translation is "working hour fraud") is working less hours than you need to as per your contract.

Dave3of5 4y ago

> Where I live, this is entirely illegal It's illegal to work two jobs ? Are you sure about that? Can you point to a specific law ? It may be against the employment contract but I think it's totally wrong to say it's illegal. That would mean the government has legislated against having two jobs. > I am under the impression that employment contracts arent really a thing in the USA. I think for most tech companies in the USA they actually do have contracts. The contract will state things like medical benefits ...etc. They are less common for working in a local bar or suchlike.

erinnh 4y ago
I was talking about full time jobs, which these "overemployed" stories generally talk about. Its technically legal to work two jobs, but in reality it simply isnt because of employee protections. Such as its illegal to work more than 40 hours average in my country. Company cant force you to work more than 40 hours per average, and neither can you choose to. Its ok to work 50 hours in one week, but you need to work less than 40 hours another then. Its also illegal to work more than 10 hours in one day. Or have less than 11 hours between job days. (Ie. you cant stop working at 11pm and start working again at 9am the next day. Theres many other issues, such as you arent allowed to work while on holiday. So you cant work a different job while on holiday from your other job. Or the fact that basically 100% of employment contracts say the amount of hours you have to work. And telling your employer you did without doing so is fraud.
- Dave3of5 4y ago
  > Such as its illegal to work more than 40 hours average You are also confused about this law. In the EU you can't force employees to work more than these hours but it's up to the employee they can agree to work more hours if they want to. It's NOT illegal to work more than those hours. > Its also illegal to work more than 10 hours in one day Wrong again the law is that a company can't force you to work these hours. That's different from being illegal for you to work more than those hours. > Or the fact that basically 100% of employment contracts say the amount of hours you have to work. And telling your employer you did without doing so is fraud It's a breach of contract NOT fraud. You really need to actually read the rules on these protections as I think you're misinformed.
  - erinnh 4y ago
    That might be true in the EU, I have no idea. But not in Germany. An employee cannot choose to work longer than that. I still was slightly wrong. The average work hours cannot exceed 48 hours a week. But an employee is not allowed to work more than that. And it very definitely is fraud. It’s called Arbeitszeitbetrug, the „Betrug“ in that word is fraud. Source: (in German) https://www.nebenjob.de/ratgeber/3164-maximale-arbeitszeit-wie-viele-stunden-im-nebenjob-sind-zusatzlich-erlaubt https://www.nebenjob.de/ratgeber/3164-maximale-arbeitszeit-w... Ill translate the relevant part for you (you can use DeepL or something if you want to crosscheck): "Für Arbeitnehmer mit Hauptjob und Nebenjob gelten diese Arbeitszeiten - Man darf in der Regel maximal 48 Stunden die Woche arbeiten. - Wenn man (zeitweilig) die Stunden pro Tag erhöht, ist eine wöchentliche Arbeitszeit von bis zu 60 Stunden möglich, wenn innerhalb eines halben Jahres die Wochenarbeitszeit auf durchschnittlich 48 Stunden ausgeglichen wird." Translation: The following working hours are relevant for employees with main and sidejob: - You are only allowed to work maximum 48 hours per week on average - If one decides (temporarily) to increase the time worked per day, a maximum 60 hours per week is possible, as long as the average worked hours stay at 48 hours per week in a 6 month timeframe. And source for Arbeitszeitbetrug being fraud: https://beratung.de/recht/ratgeber/arbeitszeitbetrug-definition-nachweis-und-konsequenzen_fncgsd https://beratung.de/recht/ratgeber/arbeitszeitbetrug-definit...
    - 4y ago