5 ms·

CEOs will sit on several boards and run a company. I don't see what's so special about the engineer that does it. Is a CEO not an employee?

by _ktx2 4y ago

siva7 4y ago
At least in my country, no, the CEO doesn’t count as an employee from a legal point of view. Therefore worker protection laws don’t apply to the CEO
- randomdata 4y ago
  What are the tax implications of that, assuming your country has an income tax?
  - erinnh 4y ago
    In Germany, they are normally treated as employees for tax reasons, but not otherwise.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - randomdata 4y ago
      What is the legal definition of an employee, outside of tax purposes, in Germany?
      - erinnh 4y ago
        Thats really complicated. A really rough breakdown is an employee is somebody who is bound to the directives of the company he is working for. Ie. cant by themselves choose their working hours freely (amount as well as time) or what they are working on. This looks somewhat ok for a more in-depth explanation: https://www.howtogermany.com/pages/employee-employer-relationship.html https://www.howtogermany.com/pages/employee-employer-relatio...
        randomdata 4y ago
        That's essentially the same criteria used in America, and CEO would generally be considered an employee in America. Where does the CEO get excluded? Your link notes that managerial positions carry certain exemptions, which is true in my country too, but that doesn't preclude managers from being employees. Directors are generally not considered employees unless they also work as an employee serving some other function in the business. This appears to be true in Germany as well. Are we simply mixing up directors and CEOs?
        erinnh 4y ago
        There has been a relatively recent ruling by our top (non-constitutional) court in 2019 that ruled on whether CEOs that arent (partial) owners of the company are employees. (Az.: II ZR 244/17) They ruled only that in the specific case that the CEO was also an employee (when being fired), but they did not rule that CEOs are always employees under all circumstances. The source below has some good extra points why its such a complicated issue. Source (in German): https://www.steinberg-arbeitsrecht.de/de/blog/384-wann-sind-geschaeftsfuehrer-arbeitnehmer https://www.steinberg-arbeitsrecht.de/de/blog/384-wann-sind-...
- nnoitra 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- TheCapeGreek 4y ago
  Double edged sword of "rules for thee but not for me".
- jvm___ 4y ago
  “The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal loaves of bread”
  - mr_gibbins 4y ago
    This is an underrated comment.
- Dave3of5 4y ago
  That doesn't answer the question he's not talking about worker protection laws. He's talking about a clause in employees contracts saying they can't have a second job. The CEO's in your country will have contract's they will just not mention anything about being overemployeed as that Standard for most CEO's.

CEOs will sit on several boards and run a company. I don't see what's so special about the engineer that does it. Is a CEO not an employee?

by _ktx2 4y ago

CEOs will sit on several boards and run a company. I don't see what's so special about the engineer that does it. Is a CEO not an employee?

siva7 4y ago

At least in my country, no, the CEO doesn’t count as an employee from a legal point of view. Therefore worker protection laws don’t apply to the CEO

randomdata 4y ago
What are the tax implications of that, assuming your country has an income tax?
- erinnh 4y ago
  In Germany, they are normally treated as employees for tax reasons, but not otherwise.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - randomdata 4y ago
    What is the legal definition of an employee, outside of tax purposes, in Germany?
    - erinnh 4y ago
      Thats really complicated. A really rough breakdown is an employee is somebody who is bound to the directives of the company he is working for. Ie. cant by themselves choose their working hours freely (amount as well as time) or what they are working on. This looks somewhat ok for a more in-depth explanation: https://www.howtogermany.com/pages/employee-employer-relationship.html https://www.howtogermany.com/pages/employee-employer-relatio...
      - randomdata 4y ago
        That's essentially the same criteria used in America, and CEO would generally be considered an employee in America. Where does the CEO get excluded? Your link notes that managerial positions carry certain exemptions, which is true in my country too, but that doesn't preclude managers from being employees. Directors are generally not considered employees unless they also work as an employee serving some other function in the business. This appears to be true in Germany as well. Are we simply mixing up directors and CEOs?
        erinnh 4y ago
        There has been a relatively recent ruling by our top (non-constitutional) court in 2019 that ruled on whether CEOs that arent (partial) owners of the company are employees. (Az.: II ZR 244/17) They ruled only that in the specific case that the CEO was also an employee (when being fired), but they did not rule that CEOs are always employees under all circumstances. The source below has some good extra points why its such a complicated issue. Source (in German): https://www.steinberg-arbeitsrecht.de/de/blog/384-wann-sind-geschaeftsfuehrer-arbeitnehmer https://www.steinberg-arbeitsrecht.de/de/blog/384-wann-sind-...
nnoitra 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
TheCapeGreek 4y ago
Double edged sword of "rules for thee but not for me".
jvm___ 4y ago
“The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal loaves of bread”
- mr_gibbins 4y ago
  This is an underrated comment.
Dave3of5 4y ago
That doesn't answer the question he's not talking about worker protection laws. He's talking about a clause in employees contracts saying they can't have a second job. The CEO's in your country will have contract's they will just not mention anything about being overemployeed as that Standard for most CEO's.