8 ms·

But also blame Amazon. If you ran a store that repeatedly sold stolen goods do you think local police and prosecutors would ignore you? Trafficking in stolen p

But also blame Amazon. If you ran a store that repeatedly sold stolen goods do you think local police and prosecutors would ignore you? Trafficking in stolen property is a felony. That's true whether you definitely know it's stolen property or if you definitely should have known (recklessly trafficking). You, if you repeatedly did it out of your small business and ignored complaints, would face prison. Why does the law apply differently to Amazon? My guess is, if you told Amazon's CEO that he had one month to substantially reduce trafficking or face felony prosecution and prison time - I bet you'd see severe reductions.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
prvit 4y ago
>If you ran a store that repeatedly sold stolen goods do you think local police and prosecutors would ignore you? Yes, if you operated your business in a way similar to Amazon the cops and prosecutors would in fact almost certainly ignore you.
- rdtwo 4y ago
  Yeah no they wouldn’t. How long did Amazon collect no sales tax before that loophole closed? How much did they have to pay back? If you tried that the state would stream roll you
  - prvit 4y ago
    Are you kidding? The “sales tax loophole” just supports my point, if it was just smaller businesses they would’ve gone on forever.
- ALittleLight 4y ago
  Really? I just googled my location plus "trafficked stolen property conviction" and found news stories regarding multiple convictions. It sure seems like the police investigate and arrest people knowingly selling stolen property. In what sense is Amazon not doing this, or recklessly disregarding whether or not they are doing this? If I were a multi-hundred billion dollar business operating like Amazon, then of course cops and prosecutors would ignore me. Laws aren't for rich and powerful companies - they are for individuals and small business owners.
  - prvit 4y ago
    Amazon is not knowingly selling stolen items, at least not in the sense meant by the law.
  - from 4y ago
    Stolen property convictions at least at the local level primarily come from stings where police come in with property that they describe as "boosted" or in similar terms and then once the sale is completed they arrest the store owner. Amazon being online is obviously immune to this kind of police work. As long as Amazon removes the seller once they become aware something is wrong they are probably not breaking any laws. Some states are trying to pass laws to make ecommerce platforms vet sellers more but I doubt this will make a difference because it is not hard to make fake invoices.
    - ALittleLight 4y ago
      So, you think that if pawn shops and the like required thieves to fill out a webform and mail stolen property in to be resold, like on Amazon, then the shop owners would be immune from prosecution? That doesn't seem plausible to me. The reality is that Amazon breaks the letter and spirit of the law. (Depending on jurisdiction) laws against trafficking stolen property do not require that the police catch you red handed in a sting, the law doesn't even require that you actually do know you are selling stolen property - you can be charged if you had a reckless disregard for selling stolen property. The spirit of the law is that selling stolen property makes theft more profitable and that will mean more theft which is bad so let's not sell stolen property. Amazon is obviously providing a way for thieves to profit. Again, repeated violations of the letter and spirit of the law reported in major newspapers, and no criminal consequences for Amazon. Do you think if your local paper was repeatedly writing stories about how Pawn Shop X was helping thieves profit, that local police and prosecutors would just shrug and point to that webform + mail setup? I don't. Even if you couldn't get a "slam dunk" case going after corporate leadership for this, you could try. Amazon has actually violated the letter and spirit of the law so it would be fair to bring a case against them. If the jury acquits, then wait until you find evidence of the next theft ring reselling on Amazon and bring new charges. Even without a conviction I don't think corporate leadership would accept facing a jury trial once a month with the possibility of a conviction and prison time. Instead, Amazon would substantially improve protections on reselling stolen property - which is the desired outcome.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

prvit 4y ago

>If you ran a store that repeatedly sold stolen goods do you think local police and prosecutors would ignore you? Yes, if you operated your business in a way similar to Amazon the cops and prosecutors would in fact almost certainly ignore you.

rdtwo 4y ago
Yeah no they wouldn’t. How long did Amazon collect no sales tax before that loophole closed? How much did they have to pay back? If you tried that the state would stream roll you
- prvit 4y ago
  Are you kidding? The “sales tax loophole” just supports my point, if it was just smaller businesses they would’ve gone on forever.
ALittleLight 4y ago
Really? I just googled my location plus "trafficked stolen property conviction" and found news stories regarding multiple convictions. It sure seems like the police investigate and arrest people knowingly selling stolen property. In what sense is Amazon not doing this, or recklessly disregarding whether or not they are doing this? If I were a multi-hundred billion dollar business operating like Amazon, then of course cops and prosecutors would ignore me. Laws aren't for rich and powerful companies - they are for individuals and small business owners.
- prvit 4y ago
  Amazon is not knowingly selling stolen items, at least not in the sense meant by the law.
- from 4y ago
  Stolen property convictions at least at the local level primarily come from stings where police come in with property that they describe as "boosted" or in similar terms and then once the sale is completed they arrest the store owner. Amazon being online is obviously immune to this kind of police work. As long as Amazon removes the seller once they become aware something is wrong they are probably not breaking any laws. Some states are trying to pass laws to make ecommerce platforms vet sellers more but I doubt this will make a difference because it is not hard to make fake invoices.
  - ALittleLight 4y ago
    So, you think that if pawn shops and the like required thieves to fill out a webform and mail stolen property in to be resold, like on Amazon, then the shop owners would be immune from prosecution? That doesn't seem plausible to me. The reality is that Amazon breaks the letter and spirit of the law. (Depending on jurisdiction) laws against trafficking stolen property do not require that the police catch you red handed in a sting, the law doesn't even require that you actually do know you are selling stolen property - you can be charged if you had a reckless disregard for selling stolen property. The spirit of the law is that selling stolen property makes theft more profitable and that will mean more theft which is bad so let's not sell stolen property. Amazon is obviously providing a way for thieves to profit. Again, repeated violations of the letter and spirit of the law reported in major newspapers, and no criminal consequences for Amazon. Do you think if your local paper was repeatedly writing stories about how Pawn Shop X was helping thieves profit, that local police and prosecutors would just shrug and point to that webform + mail setup? I don't. Even if you couldn't get a "slam dunk" case going after corporate leadership for this, you could try. Amazon has actually violated the letter and spirit of the law so it would be fair to bring a case against them. If the jury acquits, then wait until you find evidence of the next theft ring reselling on Amazon and bring new charges. Even without a conviction I don't think corporate leadership would accept facing a jury trial once a month with the possibility of a conviction and prison time. Instead, Amazon would substantially improve protections on reselling stolen property - which is the desired outcome.