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A "glaring flaw" because of some extreme and unlikely scenario? Why would governments be using AI modified content to look for people to arrest? Is this really

by dmix 4y ago

A "glaring flaw" because of some extreme and unlikely scenario? Why would governments be using AI modified content to look for people to arrest? Is this really a serious risk to dissuade using it? Seems pretty unlikely that it simultaneously a) exclusively be used as the source + b) actually matches someone IRL.

richbell 4y ago
> Why would governments be using this content to look for people to arrest? Why wouldn't oppressive regimes that are arresting dissidents review footage of dissidents that makes them look bad? Harassing reporters and their sources is a very common way to suppress information. Scientology does it, why wouldn't a government? https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbehar/2020/08/05/scientology-ruthlessly-harassed-reporters-including-me-for-decades-biden-vp-contender-karen-basss-statements-about-the-cult-just-dont-add-up/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbehar/2020/08/05/sciento...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > Why wouldn't oppressive regimes that are arresting dissidents review footage of dissidents that makes them look bad? Because the faces aren’t real? They want to arrest dissidents not random people.
  - richbell 4y ago
    > Because the faces aren’t real? They want to arrest dissidents not random people. How can you tell? The entire point of the GP's comment is that they could be mistaken. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33735239 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33735239
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > How can you tell? They literally say so in the documentary.
      - richbell 4y ago
        That doesn't stop clips from this or future videos that use this technique from being taken out of context.
    - dmix 4y ago
      This ignores how information spreads. Given how unlikely a randomly generated face will match a relevant person in a local area related to the protest or gov, that means the AI technology will also be widespread (otherwise it’s statically a non-problem because it will be significantly even more unlikely to happen IRL). If it is widespread then the government workers doing facial recognition should be keenly aware of its existence and adapt by seeking photos from non-activist/protected sources… like the thousands of photos posted on social media after every protest. The bad government doesn’t want to be arresting random people either they want the real ones.
      - richbell 4y ago
        FWIW I agree. We are dangerously close to living in a world where you cannot trust any videos, pictures, or audio. I just think that this approach is perhaps more 'cool' than it is useful, it makes me think of Mr. Swirl[0] who got caught because of a fancy effect. Is face-swapping an actor's face really better than just using the actor outright? [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Paul_Neil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Paul_Neil
kramerger 4y ago
Are you serious? This is standard practice by security forces of any dictatorship.
- dmix 4y ago
  A standard practice to use... potentially AI modified surveillance photography? Where will they get these photos from exactly in this future scenario? Activists and journalists when these photo apps become widespread (unbeknownst to the government)? It's an interesting hypothetical for sure but it's stretch to call it a glaring flaw. Not really any worse than people being misidentified in normal photos.
mansion7 4y ago
The USA itself put out a nationwide manhunt, distributing video to news outlets, asking the public to assist in identifying protesters whose only known alleged crime was trespassing.
- janalsncm 4y ago
  If you look at the J6 convictions it is for far more than trespassing. Interrupting the electoral college count turns out to be a pretty big deal.
  - mansion7 4y ago
    China, North Korea, and Iran also have excuses for how they treat their dissidents.
    - janalsncm 4y ago
      This is more than just dissent, though. I don’t think there’s a country in the world which wouldn’t criminalize active interference with its political process.
  - Eleison23 4y ago
    Not many people heard about the sitch in Phoenix after the Dobbs decision, but security forces found it necessary to barricade the State Capitol with concrete walls as pro-abortion protesters began to plot and lay siege to the Legislature inside. That battle hasn't ended, either; it's been taken to the Crisis Pregnancy Centers, but I simply remind people: if you're up-in-arms about J6, insurrection is a two-way street and knows no Right nor Left.

by dmix 4y ago

richbell 4y ago

> Why would governments be using this content to look for people to arrest? Why wouldn't oppressive regimes that are arresting dissidents review footage of dissidents that makes them look bad? Harassing reporters and their sources is a very common way to suppress information. Scientology does it, why wouldn't a government? https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbehar/2020/08/05/scientology-ruthlessly-harassed-reporters-including-me-for-decades-biden-vp-contender-karen-basss-statements-about-the-cult-just-dont-add-up/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbehar/2020/08/05/sciento...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
chrisseaton 4y ago
> Why wouldn't oppressive regimes that are arresting dissidents review footage of dissidents that makes them look bad? Because the faces aren’t real? They want to arrest dissidents not random people.
- richbell 4y ago
  > Because the faces aren’t real? They want to arrest dissidents not random people. How can you tell? The entire point of the GP's comment is that they could be mistaken. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33735239 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33735239
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    > How can you tell? They literally say so in the documentary.
    - richbell 4y ago
      That doesn't stop clips from this or future videos that use this technique from being taken out of context.
  - dmix 4y ago
    This ignores how information spreads. Given how unlikely a randomly generated face will match a relevant person in a local area related to the protest or gov, that means the AI technology will also be widespread (otherwise it’s statically a non-problem because it will be significantly even more unlikely to happen IRL). If it is widespread then the government workers doing facial recognition should be keenly aware of its existence and adapt by seeking photos from non-activist/protected sources… like the thousands of photos posted on social media after every protest. The bad government doesn’t want to be arresting random people either they want the real ones.
    - richbell 4y ago
      FWIW I agree. We are dangerously close to living in a world where you cannot trust any videos, pictures, or audio. I just think that this approach is perhaps more 'cool' than it is useful, it makes me think of Mr. Swirl[0] who got caught because of a fancy effect. Is face-swapping an actor's face really better than just using the actor outright? [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Paul_Neil https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Paul_Neil

kramerger 4y ago

Are you serious? This is standard practice by security forces of any dictatorship.

dmix 4y ago
A standard practice to use... potentially AI modified surveillance photography? Where will they get these photos from exactly in this future scenario? Activists and journalists when these photo apps become widespread (unbeknownst to the government)? It's an interesting hypothetical for sure but it's stretch to call it a glaring flaw. Not really any worse than people being misidentified in normal photos.

mansion7 4y ago

The USA itself put out a nationwide manhunt, distributing video to news outlets, asking the public to assist in identifying protesters whose only known alleged crime was trespassing.

janalsncm 4y ago
If you look at the J6 convictions it is for far more than trespassing. Interrupting the electoral college count turns out to be a pretty big deal.
- mansion7 4y ago
  China, North Korea, and Iran also have excuses for how they treat their dissidents.
  - janalsncm 4y ago
    This is more than just dissent, though. I don’t think there’s a country in the world which wouldn’t criminalize active interference with its political process.
- Eleison23 4y ago
  Not many people heard about the sitch in Phoenix after the Dobbs decision, but security forces found it necessary to barricade the State Capitol with concrete walls as pro-abortion protesters began to plot and lay siege to the Legislature inside. That battle hasn't ended, either; it's been taken to the Crisis Pregnancy Centers, but I simply remind people: if you're up-in-arms about J6, insurrection is a two-way street and knows no Right nor Left.