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This seems to have a glaring flaw in that a fake AI generated person could have a real-world doppelganger, which a tyrannical government could mistakenly arrest

This seems to have a glaring flaw in that a fake AI generated person could have a real-world doppelganger, which a tyrannical government could mistakenly arrest, or worse.

richbell 4y ago
It's a novel approach, but like you've said I think the potential negatives far outweighs the positives. Perhaps they could use obviously fake faces with weird proportions and features? Idk, this seems like a case of using cool flashy tech because it's cool and flashy and not because it's better than the alternative (using an actor to portray the subject, blurring or blacking out the subject's face).
- trompetenaccoun 4y ago
  With face recognition software and automated edits they could run any protest footage from autocratic regimes like Iran or China through a filter to obscure everyone's face and replace it with an AI generated one. All it would cost them is a few extra minutes of editing time, I'm not sure if that would be critical in the news business where there's a lot of time pressure. I think that would be a really cool feature that could help keep protesters safe. Dissidents could send footage to trustworthy outlets who would only make public the edited footage. Because of course people still want to share the event with the world, but they might not want to be identified in a place where if caught they get tortured, raped or even killed. The individual face isn't really important most of the time, it's not like it makes a difference to the viewer. They could still give the unedited footage too police in places with legitimate rule of law if the government has a court order and can prove a crime was committed by an individual they have on tape.
  - justsomehnguy 4y ago
    I think that would be a really helpful feature to convince Regular Joe what there are protests today in checks notes Eastasia.
dmix 4y ago
A "glaring flaw" because of some extreme and unlikely scenario? Why would governments be using AI modified content to look for people to arrest? Is this really a serious risk to dissuade using it? Seems pretty unlikely that it simultaneously a) exclusively be used as the source + b) actually matches someone IRL.
- richbell 4y ago
  > Why would governments be using this content to look for people to arrest? Why wouldn't oppressive regimes that are arresting dissidents review footage of dissidents that makes them look bad? Harassing reporters and their sources is a very common way to suppress information. Scientology does it, why wouldn't a government? https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbehar/2020/08/05/scientology-ruthlessly-harassed-reporters-including-me-for-decades-biden-vp-contender-karen-basss-statements-about-the-cult-just-dont-add-up/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbehar/2020/08/05/sciento...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    > Why wouldn't oppressive regimes that are arresting dissidents review footage of dissidents that makes them look bad? Because the faces aren’t real? They want to arrest dissidents not random people.
    - richbell 4y ago
      > Because the faces aren’t real? They want to arrest dissidents not random people. How can you tell? The entire point of the GP's comment is that they could be mistaken. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33735239 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33735239
      - chrisseaton 4y ago
        > How can you tell? They literally say so in the documentary.
fasthands9 4y ago
Are we sure this has a greater chance of happening than the alternative (you present the voice a transcript or robotic voice and the government arrests a random person they thought it may be linked to anywas)
baxtr 4y ago
Especially since these are generated based on training data from real humans…
jlarocco 4y ago
Seems like a publicity stunt. A face covering would cost nothing and achieve the end goal of hiding their identity.
- sportslife 4y ago
  This solves multiple goals: hide identity, show anon-source exists, and show facial emotions to viewers. The latter is a huge win for making media people want to watch. Same reason all those cable stations segment the screen into four with a face in each corner, or why streamers overlay their gaming with a their face on a webcam. We like faces.
  - Eleison23 4y ago
    I guess you're right, but if it's on the news, shouldn't we expect factual data rather than "a pageant" as De Niro repeated in "Wag the Dog"?
  - jlarocco 4y ago
    > The latter is a huge win for making media people want to watch. I get that people like faces, but the news should be real. Maybe I'm expecting too much of the BBC, but it seems pretty short-sighted to start carrying fake news, even if they are only starting with a fake face.
kristofferc 4y ago
A real person can also have a real-world doppelganger. In fact, isn't this just as likely as an AI generated person having one, maybe even more? So doing this swap didn't really change anything when it comes to "innocent" people getting targeted?
josephcsible 4y ago
But since it's publicly known that the faces are fake, the government isn't going to try to use them to identify anyone.
emptyparadise 4y ago
What if you used the faces of that tyrannical government's leadership?
upsidesinclude 4y ago
It's not even AI generated faces! They claim that they face swapped real interviews of participants with actors instead of just having the actors perform the piece....

This seems to have a glaring flaw in that a fake AI generated person could have a real-world doppelganger, which a tyrannical government could mistakenly arrest, or worse.

richbell 4y ago

It's a novel approach, but like you've said I think the potential negatives far outweighs the positives. Perhaps they could use obviously fake faces with weird proportions and features? Idk, this seems like a case of using cool flashy tech because it's cool and flashy and not because it's better than the alternative (using an actor to portray the subject, blurring or blacking out the subject's face).

trompetenaccoun 4y ago
With face recognition software and automated edits they could run any protest footage from autocratic regimes like Iran or China through a filter to obscure everyone's face and replace it with an AI generated one. All it would cost them is a few extra minutes of editing time, I'm not sure if that would be critical in the news business where there's a lot of time pressure. I think that would be a really cool feature that could help keep protesters safe. Dissidents could send footage to trustworthy outlets who would only make public the edited footage. Because of course people still want to share the event with the world, but they might not want to be identified in a place where if caught they get tortured, raped or even killed. The individual face isn't really important most of the time, it's not like it makes a difference to the viewer. They could still give the unedited footage too police in places with legitimate rule of law if the government has a court order and can prove a crime was committed by an individual they have on tape.
- justsomehnguy 4y ago
  I think that would be a really helpful feature to convince Regular Joe what there are protests today in checks notes Eastasia.

dmix 4y ago

A "glaring flaw" because of some extreme and unlikely scenario? Why would governments be using AI modified content to look for people to arrest? Is this really a serious risk to dissuade using it? Seems pretty unlikely that it simultaneously a) exclusively be used as the source + b) actually matches someone IRL.

richbell 4y ago
> Why would governments be using this content to look for people to arrest? Why wouldn't oppressive regimes that are arresting dissidents review footage of dissidents that makes them look bad? Harassing reporters and their sources is a very common way to suppress information. Scientology does it, why wouldn't a government? https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbehar/2020/08/05/scientology-ruthlessly-harassed-reporters-including-me-for-decades-biden-vp-contender-karen-basss-statements-about-the-cult-just-dont-add-up/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardbehar/2020/08/05/sciento...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > Why wouldn't oppressive regimes that are arresting dissidents review footage of dissidents that makes them look bad? Because the faces aren’t real? They want to arrest dissidents not random people.
  - richbell 4y ago
    > Because the faces aren’t real? They want to arrest dissidents not random people. How can you tell? The entire point of the GP's comment is that they could be mistaken. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33735239 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33735239
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      > How can you tell? They literally say so in the documentary.

fasthands9 4y ago

Are we sure this has a greater chance of happening than the alternative (you present the voice a transcript or robotic voice and the government arrests a random person they thought it may be linked to anywas)

baxtr 4y ago

Especially since these are generated based on training data from real humans…

jlarocco 4y ago

Seems like a publicity stunt. A face covering would cost nothing and achieve the end goal of hiding their identity.

sportslife 4y ago
This solves multiple goals: hide identity, show anon-source exists, and show facial emotions to viewers. The latter is a huge win for making media people want to watch. Same reason all those cable stations segment the screen into four with a face in each corner, or why streamers overlay their gaming with a their face on a webcam. We like faces.
- Eleison23 4y ago
  I guess you're right, but if it's on the news, shouldn't we expect factual data rather than "a pageant" as De Niro repeated in "Wag the Dog"?
- jlarocco 4y ago
  > The latter is a huge win for making media people want to watch. I get that people like faces, but the news should be real. Maybe I'm expecting too much of the BBC, but it seems pretty short-sighted to start carrying fake news, even if they are only starting with a fake face.

kristofferc 4y ago

A real person can also have a real-world doppelganger. In fact, isn't this just as likely as an AI generated person having one, maybe even more? So doing this swap didn't really change anything when it comes to "innocent" people getting targeted?

josephcsible 4y ago

But since it's publicly known that the faces are fake, the government isn't going to try to use them to identify anyone.

emptyparadise 4y ago

What if you used the faces of that tyrannical government's leadership?

upsidesinclude 4y ago

It's not even AI generated faces! They claim that they face swapped real interviews of participants with actors instead of just having the actors perform the piece....