4 ms·

Problem is that usefulness is not universal past essential things. I’m sure we can find many things you find wasteful that I consider useful and vice-versa.

roland35 4y ago
Having a bunch of computers that don't trust each other all performing random calculations to find a specific hash and then add a small block of data to a globally duplicated append only data structure that processes about 7 transactions per second is pretty useless.
- danuker 4y ago
  I agree with you here. Which is why I use Bitcoin Cash instead. But I believe people should be free to waste/risk their money in general.
  - roland35 4y ago
    That's all fine, except in this case there are some extreme externalities unfortunately. We are all going to pay the price in the long term for this environmental waste. Sometimes regulations are required to protect a shared resource.
  - polygamous_bat 4y ago
    I don't think I should be allowed to buy all the used tires and burn them on my backyard in an open flame next to the local middle school, even if it is my money and my backyard. What do you think?
- dmarcos 4y ago
  Why do you think is designed this way? Some think that proof of work is essential in order to have a monetary system that it’s really hard to corrupt hence essential for them. Search for thermodynamically sound money. I’m sure proponents would be open to alternative designs if desired properties are retained.
  - woodruffw 4y ago
    “Hard to corrupt” is not the choice of phrase I would use, given the last month of cryptocurrency news.
    - dmarcos 4y ago
      An irresponsible centralized exchange crashing doesn’t challenge the fundamentals of the bitcoin protocol.
      - woodruffw 4y ago
        Sure. It just belies motives and incentives that I don’t want anywhere in my society, much less near fuel-burning power plants. Similarly: nothing about forbidding the use of fossil fuels challenges the fundamentals of the Bitcoin protocol. It’s merely been promoted to the same regulatory status as “burning tires in your backyard for heat.”
- ericd 4y ago
  You (and everyone else quoting low transactions per second figures) seem to be ignoring the parts above BTC that just use it as a net settlement layer, but allow for large numbers of transactions for almost no marginal energy usage per transaction. Lightning wouldn’t be able to do all those transactions without BTC providing that security.
  - roland35 4y ago
    The only thing crypto needs is another layer of crypto! I'm sure there is another crypto layer that provides FDIC insurance, fraud and loss protection, physical offline methods of payment, etc etc... All it serves to do is create more techno-babble that confuses 99% of the population which has no ability to actually understand what the technology actually is and does. So scams fill the void
    - dmarcos 4y ago
      Bitcoin like any other protocol has certain characteristics and tradeoffs. The traditional monetary system is layered too (credit cards is one of the consumer facing ones). Layered architectures are found everywhere. See the Web: IP, TCP, HTTP. Any concern about those? Do you think a protocol that does it all would be better or even possible?

roland35 4y ago

Having a bunch of computers that don't trust each other all performing random calculations to find a specific hash and then add a small block of data to a globally duplicated append only data structure that processes about 7 transactions per second is pretty useless.

danuker 4y ago
I agree with you here. Which is why I use Bitcoin Cash instead. But I believe people should be free to waste/risk their money in general.
- roland35 4y ago
  That's all fine, except in this case there are some extreme externalities unfortunately. We are all going to pay the price in the long term for this environmental waste. Sometimes regulations are required to protect a shared resource.
- polygamous_bat 4y ago
  I don't think I should be allowed to buy all the used tires and burn them on my backyard in an open flame next to the local middle school, even if it is my money and my backyard. What do you think?
dmarcos 4y ago
Why do you think is designed this way? Some think that proof of work is essential in order to have a monetary system that it’s really hard to corrupt hence essential for them. Search for thermodynamically sound money. I’m sure proponents would be open to alternative designs if desired properties are retained.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  “Hard to corrupt” is not the choice of phrase I would use, given the last month of cryptocurrency news.
  - dmarcos 4y ago
    An irresponsible centralized exchange crashing doesn’t challenge the fundamentals of the bitcoin protocol.
    - woodruffw 4y ago
      Sure. It just belies motives and incentives that I don’t want anywhere in my society, much less near fuel-burning power plants. Similarly: nothing about forbidding the use of fossil fuels challenges the fundamentals of the Bitcoin protocol. It’s merely been promoted to the same regulatory status as “burning tires in your backyard for heat.”
ericd 4y ago
You (and everyone else quoting low transactions per second figures) seem to be ignoring the parts above BTC that just use it as a net settlement layer, but allow for large numbers of transactions for almost no marginal energy usage per transaction. Lightning wouldn’t be able to do all those transactions without BTC providing that security.
- roland35 4y ago
  The only thing crypto needs is another layer of crypto! I'm sure there is another crypto layer that provides FDIC insurance, fraud and loss protection, physical offline methods of payment, etc etc... All it serves to do is create more techno-babble that confuses 99% of the population which has no ability to actually understand what the technology actually is and does. So scams fill the void
  - dmarcos 4y ago
    Bitcoin like any other protocol has certain characteristics and tradeoffs. The traditional monetary system is layered too (credit cards is one of the consumer facing ones). Layered architectures are found everywhere. See the Web: IP, TCP, HTTP. Any concern about those? Do you think a protocol that does it all would be better or even possible?