13 ms·

https://www.openstreetmap.org https://www.openstreetmap.org

by canbus 4y ago

ruph123 4y ago
Unfortunately this is really not an option for (some) areas in the US. After having moved to a populous LA area from Germany I was baffled at the lack of detail in the maps. Basic things like building numbers are entirely missing. Even after adding more and more details I would never fully rely on OSM here sadly. And if it only works sometimes why even bother using it in the first place? At least this was my progression. From fully using OSM, I am back to Google. The only good in-between solution is MagicEarth which supplements OSM maps with data from lord knows where. However although they claim to be privacy cautious they are quite opaque.
- edf13 4y ago
  Not heard of MagicEarth before - looks interesting but what's missing is a "Why/how is it free" statement. They don't cover how they monetise this, what's their business model.
- cornedor 4y ago
  Also, do not fully rely on Google Maps knowing house numbers. Looks like in some areas (in UK for example) Google used some sort of OCR to find house numbers. There are houses and Wales with random house numbers that only have a house name; Numbering ends a few houses into dead-end alley where the Street View car didn't come; Or totally wrong numbers where house number sings are hard to read.
  - oniony 4y ago
    House names, rather than numbers, are very common in rural UK.
    - aganumb 4y ago
      Searching for my address just straight up doesn't work. Named house rather than a number, and the postcode isn't a particular street but covers a number of little tracks up to various farms. I also don't have a road name. The address syntax is: Building name Town County Post code The combination of no road and no number means Google absolutely fails. It just gives suggestions of businesses nearby... Ish.
      - Eleison23 4y ago
        Does your location have a Place ID? Google originated Place IDs for exactly this type of use case, so that people could find places like yours without an address.
    - gumby 4y ago
      Australia went to mandatory house numbers in, I think, the 60s but my grandmother refused and gave out only her house name until she passed away in the 21st century.
- moffkalast 4y ago
  Makes more sense to switch to bing maps, since they have ever so slightly better satelite imagery and there's no way in hell anyone would use bing for anything else anyway.
- mcv 4y ago
  Interesting. In my experience, OSM's level of detail in Amsterdam is much higher than Google's. Especially in bike routes, an area that Google often sucks at.
  - timeon 4y ago
    OSM is usually better in Europe. Even some rural paths were mapped as streets in Google maps. But in USA it is probably other way around.
- db48x 4y ago
  A lot of the US road map was imported from TIGER (<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topologically_Integrated_Geographic_Encoding_and_Referencing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topologically_Integrated_Geogr...>). This is an electronic mapping system set up in the 90s by the US Government to aid in conducting the census. The TIGER data doesn’t have any address information at all, just road shapes. No information about the type of road, the number of lanes, the quality of the surface, presence of sidewalks, signals at intersections, anything. Just the paths the roads follow, and those paths are often of extremely poor quality. The resulting OSM maps are barely usable; sometimes they are not even recognizable by locals. So OSM has decent geographical coverage of the US, but relies very heavily on individual contributors to correct the deficiencies and add useful information to the maps. The only way it will be usable for you is if others have improved it. The only way it will be usable for others is if you jump back in and do the same.
  - mtmail 4y ago
    > TIGER data doesn’t have any address information at all In the EDGE tables it does have ZIP codes and house number ranges, split into left and right side of the road. ZIP codes were imported into OpenStreetMap data. House number ranges are imported into the OpenStreetMap search into a separate database table, so searching works in a lot of areas but it's far from complete, all the issues you mentioned with roads that don't even exist etc
    - db48x 4y ago
      I stand corrected. Maybe the TIGER data or the import process was improved at some point in the last decade?
avtolik 4y ago
While I like OSM for some use cases, and have contributed, it can not work as a replacement for google maps for every day use. My biggest problem is the search - absolutely unusable.
- kqr 4y ago
  Technical nit: OSM as such does not have "a search". Geocoding (as it's known) is a separate component and if you dislike the one used by the openstreetmap.org there are other services that render OpenStreetMap data for you – perhaps with a better search!
verytrivial 4y ago
Here's a question for someone who understands cross-site cookies (which isn't me): Why does www.google.com/maps 's site permissions show https://www.openstreetmap.org/ https://www.openstreetmap.org/ as one of the sites 'that can use cross-site cookies and site data'?
cft 4y ago
I found OsmAnd absolutely essential in my extensive off-road travels in Central America and Spain, paid to support it via Google Play, but i could not for the hell of it figure out how to submit photos and places. It forced me to create a separate account and then always gave me errors when i tried to submit
- ce4 4y ago
  The separate account is needed for openstreetmap uploads/notes/corrections. You can add places on osm.org also or retry with the osm account using Osmand.
  - cft 4y ago
    I have what i think is a separate account. Could you link a GitHub where i can create an issue and upload error screenshots? Even if it's not a bug but a feature, it should still be useful, because this flow is very confusing.
    - rhamzeh 4y ago
      https://github.com/osmandapp/OsmAnd/issues https://github.com/osmandapp/OsmAnd/issues
    - ce4 4y ago
      There are two ways to login Oauth and user/password, you can try both under plugins/openstreetmap editing/settings/Login to Openstreetmap The official Telegram support group is also good for getting help: https://t.me/OsmAndMaps https://t.me/OsmAndMaps
dbrgn 4y ago
If you need OSM on Android, I can recommend: - "Organic Maps" (a fork of the old MapsMe codebase) if you want a clean, simple user experience - "OSMAnd" if you want a very powerful, highly customizable map application, which comes at the cost of a steeper learning curve Both apps are open source and support navigation, offline maps and POI search. The things I miss most compared to Google Maps is live traffic information and the powerful search. However, this has a privacy cost, so I generally try to use OSM first, and only fall back to Google Maps (in the browser) if I really need to.
- mngnt 4y ago
  I'm a OSMand user and OSM contributor. However, sometimes I hate the routing OSMand provides, taking me through narrow streets with awkward turns. Wish they used GraphHopper... A nice feature in OSMand is that even if you get the free version off the Play store, if you log in with OSM and are active, you get free map updates and all the "plus" functions. And on top of that, the full plus version is available off F-Droid. By the way, OSMand has some support for reporting traffic issues (police, crashes), but it's very very limited due to low adoption way below a critical mass. Also, reporting traffic status would probably require OSMand to run a pretty beefy server and get the current speed/traffic info from all the users - many chose it exactly because they don't want that.
  - dotancohen 4y ago
    Maybe you know. I've been told twice that OSMand can show the altitude above sea level of a location, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how. Have you any idea? Thanks!
    - ce4 4y ago
      It's these steps: - go to pugins section and activate the contour lines plugin - then go to download maps and load the contour lines data for your region - go to configure map and check the show contour lines option I think you need the f-droid Version or the paid pro Playstore version or the subscription. Please note that this will only show marked contour lines and not interpolate/estimate the elevation for any point. So you need to search for the next line and get your own idea what that means for the specific location. Not ideal for very flat areas with sparse contour lines. For the current position you can show GPS elevation (settings, configure screen, widgets)
mcv 4y ago
But is the app as good as Google's? I always struggle with OSM maps. I think at the moment there's a massive discount on OsmAnd+. Worth it?
- therealmarv 4y ago
  Really depends, it can be much better than Google depending on country/region. Google Maps is not in every country good. Definitely better for any kind of outdoor activity like hiking, bicycle, ski etc. and offline usage.
therealmarv 4y ago
The problem is you loose a certain percentage of businesses and also user recommendations (no real alternative there). There is no real incentive for businesses to make yourself visible on OSM (probably many don't even know it exists).
NGRhodes 4y ago
Obviously YMMV. I live about 1 mile from suburbs in a town called Bingley in Yorkshire, England. I can't trust Google maps locally (though its good for local business searches), as the mapping quality is terrible. My village and local town have roads missing, numerous public rights of way missing (over both public and private land). Major areas of trees missing. OSM is much, much better. See the difference: https://ibb.co/fk74k3s https://ibb.co/fk74k3s https://ibb.co/GTKMTzn https://ibb.co/GTKMTzn I am noticing more and more how poor Google maps is for non-drivers (such as myself recently having to stop driving), such as not being able to do walking routes over local foot bridges, OSM with OSRM or Grasshopper is fine: https://ibb.co/NtTf6kr https://ibb.co/NtTf6kr https://ibb.co/sq60YQy https://ibb.co/sq60YQy
- dotancohen 4y ago
  > OSM with OSRM or Grasshopper Is this usable on mobile? Can you tell a bit more?
  - NGRhodes 4y ago
    Sorry, I don't know. I used the OSM website for the purpose of this comparison. I use the Magic Earth app on my phone, which has proprietary route planning (using open street maps).
    - dotancohen 4y ago
      I see, thanks.
college_physics 4y ago
osm and wikipedia are proof that an alternative, more desirable, digital universe is not utopically distant but begging to be born. imagine if the world would somehow muster to dedicate something more than token support to such projects / designs prediction: osm will eventually surpass wikipedia as the most successful crowdsourced effort because the more objective and simple nature of its data allows dramatic scaling. if even 1% of the billions of the world's roaming mobile devices get into the habbit of augmenting the osm database (e.g. using streamlined UI's like streetcomplete or yet to be build apps) the disruption will be on its way
- NavinF 4y ago
  Would you bet money on that? Google Maps is pretty entrenched. A competing 2.4 trillion dollar company that preinstalled their app on the most popular phone in the US couldn't dethrone Google Maps.
  - college_physics 4y ago
    my prediction was careful to pitch osm against wikipedia (both of which I love) not against the well known elephant in the room :-) but on your real point, yes its going to be a long slog...
dclowd9901 4y ago
Or, you know, use the Google maps app (like the company is always haranguing us to do) and turn on “only allow while using” for geo location.
vaakash 4y ago
This article is not about one specific service and how an alternative can solve the problem. It is an example of how companies are dying to permission to track is.

https://www.openstreetmap.org https://www.openstreetmap.org

by canbus 4y ago

https://www.openstreetmap.org https://www.openstreetmap.org

Unfortunately this is really not an option for (some) areas in the US. After having moved to a populous LA area from Germany I was baffled at the lack of detail in the maps. Basic things like building numbers are entirely missing. Even after adding more and more details I would never fully rely on OSM here sadly. And if it only works sometimes why even bother using it in the first place? At least this was my progression. From fully using OSM, I am back to Google. The only good in-between solution is MagicEarth which supplements OSM maps with data from lord knows where. However although they claim to be privacy cautious they are quite opaque.

edf13 4y ago
Not heard of MagicEarth before - looks interesting but what's missing is a "Why/how is it free" statement. They don't cover how they monetise this, what's their business model.
cornedor 4y ago
Also, do not fully rely on Google Maps knowing house numbers. Looks like in some areas (in UK for example) Google used some sort of OCR to find house numbers. There are houses and Wales with random house numbers that only have a house name; Numbering ends a few houses into dead-end alley where the Street View car didn't come; Or totally wrong numbers where house number sings are hard to read.
- oniony 4y ago
  House names, rather than numbers, are very common in rural UK.
  - aganumb 4y ago
    Searching for my address just straight up doesn't work. Named house rather than a number, and the postcode isn't a particular street but covers a number of little tracks up to various farms. I also don't have a road name. The address syntax is: Building name Town County Post code The combination of no road and no number means Google absolutely fails. It just gives suggestions of businesses nearby... Ish.
    - Eleison23 4y ago
      Does your location have a Place ID? Google originated Place IDs for exactly this type of use case, so that people could find places like yours without an address.
  - gumby 4y ago
    Australia went to mandatory house numbers in, I think, the 60s but my grandmother refused and gave out only her house name until she passed away in the 21st century.
moffkalast 4y ago
Makes more sense to switch to bing maps, since they have ever so slightly better satelite imagery and there's no way in hell anyone would use bing for anything else anyway.
mcv 4y ago
Interesting. In my experience, OSM's level of detail in Amsterdam is much higher than Google's. Especially in bike routes, an area that Google often sucks at.
- timeon 4y ago
  OSM is usually better in Europe. Even some rural paths were mapped as streets in Google maps. But in USA it is probably other way around.
db48x 4y ago
A lot of the US road map was imported from TIGER (<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topologically_Integrated_Geographic_Encoding_and_Referencing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topologically_Integrated_Geogr...>). This is an electronic mapping system set up in the 90s by the US Government to aid in conducting the census. The TIGER data doesn’t have any address information at all, just road shapes. No information about the type of road, the number of lanes, the quality of the surface, presence of sidewalks, signals at intersections, anything. Just the paths the roads follow, and those paths are often of extremely poor quality. The resulting OSM maps are barely usable; sometimes they are not even recognizable by locals. So OSM has decent geographical coverage of the US, but relies very heavily on individual contributors to correct the deficiencies and add useful information to the maps. The only way it will be usable for you is if others have improved it. The only way it will be usable for others is if you jump back in and do the same.
- mtmail 4y ago
  > TIGER data doesn’t have any address information at all In the EDGE tables it does have ZIP codes and house number ranges, split into left and right side of the road. ZIP codes were imported into OpenStreetMap data. House number ranges are imported into the OpenStreetMap search into a separate database table, so searching works in a lot of areas but it's far from complete, all the issues you mentioned with roads that don't even exist etc
  - db48x 4y ago
    I stand corrected. Maybe the TIGER data or the import process was improved at some point in the last decade?

avtolik 4y ago

While I like OSM for some use cases, and have contributed, it can not work as a replacement for google maps for every day use. My biggest problem is the search - absolutely unusable.

kqr 4y ago
Technical nit: OSM as such does not have "a search". Geocoding (as it's known) is a separate component and if you dislike the one used by the openstreetmap.org there are other services that render OpenStreetMap data for you – perhaps with a better search!

verytrivial 4y ago

Here's a question for someone who understands cross-site cookies (which isn't me): Why does www.google.com/maps 's site permissions show https://www.openstreetmap.org/ https://www.openstreetmap.org/ as one of the sites 'that can use cross-site cookies and site data'?

cft 4y ago

I found OsmAnd absolutely essential in my extensive off-road travels in Central America and Spain, paid to support it via Google Play, but i could not for the hell of it figure out how to submit photos and places. It forced me to create a separate account and then always gave me errors when i tried to submit

ce4 4y ago
The separate account is needed for openstreetmap uploads/notes/corrections. You can add places on osm.org also or retry with the osm account using Osmand.
- cft 4y ago
  I have what i think is a separate account. Could you link a GitHub where i can create an issue and upload error screenshots? Even if it's not a bug but a feature, it should still be useful, because this flow is very confusing.
  - rhamzeh 4y ago
    https://github.com/osmandapp/OsmAnd/issues https://github.com/osmandapp/OsmAnd/issues
  - ce4 4y ago
    There are two ways to login Oauth and user/password, you can try both under plugins/openstreetmap editing/settings/Login to Openstreetmap The official Telegram support group is also good for getting help: https://t.me/OsmAndMaps https://t.me/OsmAndMaps

dbrgn 4y ago

If you need OSM on Android, I can recommend: - "Organic Maps" (a fork of the old MapsMe codebase) if you want a clean, simple user experience - "OSMAnd" if you want a very powerful, highly customizable map application, which comes at the cost of a steeper learning curve Both apps are open source and support navigation, offline maps and POI search. The things I miss most compared to Google Maps is live traffic information and the powerful search. However, this has a privacy cost, so I generally try to use OSM first, and only fall back to Google Maps (in the browser) if I really need to.

mngnt 4y ago
I'm a OSMand user and OSM contributor. However, sometimes I hate the routing OSMand provides, taking me through narrow streets with awkward turns. Wish they used GraphHopper... A nice feature in OSMand is that even if you get the free version off the Play store, if you log in with OSM and are active, you get free map updates and all the "plus" functions. And on top of that, the full plus version is available off F-Droid. By the way, OSMand has some support for reporting traffic issues (police, crashes), but it's very very limited due to low adoption way below a critical mass. Also, reporting traffic status would probably require OSMand to run a pretty beefy server and get the current speed/traffic info from all the users - many chose it exactly because they don't want that.
- dotancohen 4y ago
  Maybe you know. I've been told twice that OSMand can show the altitude above sea level of a location, but I cannot for the life of me figure out how. Have you any idea? Thanks!
  - ce4 4y ago
    It's these steps: - go to pugins section and activate the contour lines plugin - then go to download maps and load the contour lines data for your region - go to configure map and check the show contour lines option I think you need the f-droid Version or the paid pro Playstore version or the subscription. Please note that this will only show marked contour lines and not interpolate/estimate the elevation for any point. So you need to search for the next line and get your own idea what that means for the specific location. Not ideal for very flat areas with sparse contour lines. For the current position you can show GPS elevation (settings, configure screen, widgets)

mcv 4y ago

But is the app as good as Google's? I always struggle with OSM maps. I think at the moment there's a massive discount on OsmAnd+. Worth it?

therealmarv 4y ago
Really depends, it can be much better than Google depending on country/region. Google Maps is not in every country good. Definitely better for any kind of outdoor activity like hiking, bicycle, ski etc. and offline usage.

therealmarv 4y ago

The problem is you loose a certain percentage of businesses and also user recommendations (no real alternative there). There is no real incentive for businesses to make yourself visible on OSM (probably many don't even know it exists).

NGRhodes 4y ago

Obviously YMMV. I live about 1 mile from suburbs in a town called Bingley in Yorkshire, England. I can't trust Google maps locally (though its good for local business searches), as the mapping quality is terrible. My village and local town have roads missing, numerous public rights of way missing (over both public and private land). Major areas of trees missing. OSM is much, much better. See the difference: https://ibb.co/fk74k3s https://ibb.co/fk74k3s https://ibb.co/GTKMTzn https://ibb.co/GTKMTzn I am noticing more and more how poor Google maps is for non-drivers (such as myself recently having to stop driving), such as not being able to do walking routes over local foot bridges, OSM with OSRM or Grasshopper is fine: https://ibb.co/NtTf6kr https://ibb.co/NtTf6kr https://ibb.co/sq60YQy https://ibb.co/sq60YQy

dotancohen 4y ago
> OSM with OSRM or Grasshopper Is this usable on mobile? Can you tell a bit more?
- NGRhodes 4y ago
  Sorry, I don't know. I used the OSM website for the purpose of this comparison. I use the Magic Earth app on my phone, which has proprietary route planning (using open street maps).
  - dotancohen 4y ago
    I see, thanks.

college_physics 4y ago

osm and wikipedia are proof that an alternative, more desirable, digital universe is not utopically distant but begging to be born. imagine if the world would somehow muster to dedicate something more than token support to such projects / designs prediction: osm will eventually surpass wikipedia as the most successful crowdsourced effort because the more objective and simple nature of its data allows dramatic scaling. if even 1% of the billions of the world's roaming mobile devices get into the habbit of augmenting the osm database (e.g. using streamlined UI's like streetcomplete or yet to be build apps) the disruption will be on its way

NavinF 4y ago
Would you bet money on that? Google Maps is pretty entrenched. A competing 2.4 trillion dollar company that preinstalled their app on the most popular phone in the US couldn't dethrone Google Maps.
- college_physics 4y ago
  my prediction was careful to pitch osm against wikipedia (both of which I love) not against the well known elephant in the room :-) but on your real point, yes its going to be a long slog...

dclowd9901 4y ago

Or, you know, use the Google maps app (like the company is always haranguing us to do) and turn on “only allow while using” for geo location.

vaakash 4y ago

This article is not about one specific service and how an alternative can solve the problem. It is an example of how companies are dying to permission to track is.