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When I was younger, I also thought that way. I also felt that being artist has nothing to with money: a true artist will always create out of their internal nee

When I was younger, I also thought that way. I also felt that being artist has nothing to with money: a true artist will always create out of their internal need, not for money. Then came the brutal reality: creating high-quality artwork needs time. Some can be created after work, but not that much. Some forms of art require expensive instruments. Some, like filmmaking, require collaboration and coordination of many people. So yes, I could do some forms of art part-time using the money from my day job, but I knew it was a far cry from what I could do when working on it full time. It's not capitalism, it's just reality.

arbol 4y ago
The restrictions on creating art are the product of the society you live in, which means they are the product of capitalism if you live in a capitalist society. The way society is organised determines the cost of people's time, the cost of the tools, and the cost of the materials.
- Xelynega 4y ago
  Yea I find when people say "ideas shouldn't be ownable" it's really the more general "deriving profit from private ownership was a mistake". Like you kinda point out, most of the reason I can think of that a person would want control of their intellectual property is to derive profit from it. That reason has nothing to do with intellectual property or how it's created, it's a consequence of living in a capitalist society.
kikokikokiko 4y ago
It's almost like "capitalism" isn't something that needs to be created and forced upon people, it's just the way a world where energy isn't free and can not be created from thin air works. Capitalism is just that, the realization that there's no free lunches and no UBIs are possible without some serious unintended consequences. I pirate everything I consume, but I would never be such an hypocrite to say that all copyright must be abolished.
- andrepd 4y ago
  That's one of the great victories of capitalism: somehow it has convinced people that a 300 year-old economic system originating in north-western Europe is as natural as the air we breathe, and as inevitable as gravity or any natural law.
  - CamperBob2 4y ago
    You have to threaten to shoot people to get them to practice any other -ism. So, yes, capitalism in the sense of the freedom to trade one's labor does appear to be naturally and universally emergent in advanced human societies, in the absence of violent interference.
    - hyperlogos 4y ago
      Capitalism is certainly not characterized by the absence of violent interference.
      - CamperBob2 4y ago
        Yes, it is. The violence comes in when you interfere with capitalism. It's not imposed upon you forcefully, you just aren't allowed to get in the way. To the extent that certain aspects of capitalism lead to violence, those are elements that other parties -- generally corporations or governments rather than writers or philosophers -- added to the ideology. People die trying to break out of non-capitalist countries, while they die trying to break in to capitalist ones. That's one possible way to tell the good guys from the bad guys.
        andrepd 4y ago
        > Yes, it is. The violence comes in when you interfere with capitalism. Ahahah, I absolutely love this sentence. You might have said the quiet part out loud though. “You gots to understand”, said Fat Tony, “I'm not a violent man. The violence simply comes in when you interfere with my business.”
BurningFrog 4y ago
Yeah, if you want artists to be able to devote their lives to their craft and reach the highest possible levels, they have to get paid enough to do that. If all artists are "weekend warriors", they will still produce a lot of art, and some of it will be the best in that world. But the quality will be far from what we enjoy today. That said, there are of course other ways to pay artists than the capitalist way of having customers pay for what they like. But I think the track record firmly favors a capitalist system.

arbol 4y ago

The restrictions on creating art are the product of the society you live in, which means they are the product of capitalism if you live in a capitalist society. The way society is organised determines the cost of people's time, the cost of the tools, and the cost of the materials.

Xelynega 4y ago
Yea I find when people say "ideas shouldn't be ownable" it's really the more general "deriving profit from private ownership was a mistake". Like you kinda point out, most of the reason I can think of that a person would want control of their intellectual property is to derive profit from it. That reason has nothing to do with intellectual property or how it's created, it's a consequence of living in a capitalist society.

kikokikokiko 4y ago

It's almost like "capitalism" isn't something that needs to be created and forced upon people, it's just the way a world where energy isn't free and can not be created from thin air works. Capitalism is just that, the realization that there's no free lunches and no UBIs are possible without some serious unintended consequences. I pirate everything I consume, but I would never be such an hypocrite to say that all copyright must be abolished.

andrepd 4y ago
That's one of the great victories of capitalism: somehow it has convinced people that a 300 year-old economic system originating in north-western Europe is as natural as the air we breathe, and as inevitable as gravity or any natural law.
- CamperBob2 4y ago
  You have to threaten to shoot people to get them to practice any other -ism. So, yes, capitalism in the sense of the freedom to trade one's labor does appear to be naturally and universally emergent in advanced human societies, in the absence of violent interference.
  - hyperlogos 4y ago
    Capitalism is certainly not characterized by the absence of violent interference.
    - CamperBob2 4y ago
      Yes, it is. The violence comes in when you interfere with capitalism. It's not imposed upon you forcefully, you just aren't allowed to get in the way. To the extent that certain aspects of capitalism lead to violence, those are elements that other parties -- generally corporations or governments rather than writers or philosophers -- added to the ideology. People die trying to break out of non-capitalist countries, while they die trying to break in to capitalist ones. That's one possible way to tell the good guys from the bad guys.
      - andrepd 4y ago
        > Yes, it is. The violence comes in when you interfere with capitalism. Ahahah, I absolutely love this sentence. You might have said the quiet part out loud though. “You gots to understand”, said Fat Tony, “I'm not a violent man. The violence simply comes in when you interfere with my business.”

BurningFrog 4y ago

Yeah, if you want artists to be able to devote their lives to their craft and reach the highest possible levels, they have to get paid enough to do that. If all artists are "weekend warriors", they will still produce a lot of art, and some of it will be the best in that world. But the quality will be far from what we enjoy today. That said, there are of course other ways to pay artists than the capitalist way of having customers pay for what they like. But I think the track record firmly favors a capitalist system.