4 ms·

It is well-documented that SBF literally stole customer deposits and lent them to Alameda. He defrauded his customers, investors and employees. He stole.

Renaud 4y ago
I want to believe you but it's a pretty damning accusation and I think here on HN people expect some citation to reliable sources.
- siftrics 4y ago
  https://twitter.com/wclementeiii/status/1592289824542949376 https://twitter.com/wclementeiii/status/1592289824542949376 That is hard evidence that Alameda took FTX customers' deposits. It is easy to find the original FTX Terms of Service which state that deposits are not lent out. Additionally, SBF himself tweeted that deposits are "never invested, not even in bonds" [verbatim].
  - googlryas 4y ago
    Is there some wordplay opening there? "It was a loan, not an investment"? "I gifted the money, I didn't invest it", etc...
    - siftrics 4y ago
      As if that morally exonerates him...
- zeven7 4y ago
  Vox: you tweeted out some stuff like - we never invest your deposits Vox: that was bs, right? SBF: it was factually accurate Vox: huh!!! but like - their deposits were totally not there? or do you just mean, technically it was Alameda SBF: FTX SBF: correct https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23462333/sam-bankman-fried-ftx-cryptocurrency-effective-altruism-crypto-bahamas-philanthropy https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23462333/sam-bankman-frie...
tremarley 4y ago
FTX collapsed due to accounting mistakes and using illiquid tokens as collateral. What sources show that SBF stole customer deposits?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- zeven7 4y ago
  See my reply to the similar comment in this thread and https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23462333/sam-bankman-fried-ftx-cryptocurrency-effective-altruism-crypto-bahamas-philanthropy https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23462333/sam-bankman-frie... Customers deposited funds for FTX to hold. FTX said "We're holding your funds; they're safe." FTX no longer has the customer funds. Why? They gave them to Alameda and Alameda traded with them and lost them (or maybe stashed some of it somewhere). That's theft, not accounting mistakes.
  - tremarley 4y ago
    From the moment they launched, their terms claimed that FTT will be used as collateral to borrow money from their FTX platform. FTX wasn't and isn't the only protocol CEX that does this. When Facebook sells our data to advertisers, their not stealing it. It's in their terms. It doesn't make it a fair or great thing though.
    - votepaunchy 4y ago
      Would it be stealing if $1 of crypto was “borrowed” for $0.02 of FTT? Digital copying is not theft, but since crypto cannot be copied I am fine with calling FTX’s actions stealing.
    - zeven7 4y ago
      I would be very interested to see a citation and also to know what other large exchanges do this.
    - siftrics 4y ago

Renaud 4y ago

I want to believe you but it's a pretty damning accusation and I think here on HN people expect some citation to reliable sources.

siftrics 4y ago
https://twitter.com/wclementeiii/status/1592289824542949376 https://twitter.com/wclementeiii/status/1592289824542949376 That is hard evidence that Alameda took FTX customers' deposits. It is easy to find the original FTX Terms of Service which state that deposits are not lent out. Additionally, SBF himself tweeted that deposits are "never invested, not even in bonds" [verbatim].
- googlryas 4y ago
  Is there some wordplay opening there? "It was a loan, not an investment"? "I gifted the money, I didn't invest it", etc...
  - siftrics 4y ago
    As if that morally exonerates him...
zeven7 4y ago
Vox: you tweeted out some stuff like - we never invest your deposits Vox: that was bs, right? SBF: it was factually accurate Vox: huh!!! but like - their deposits were totally not there? or do you just mean, technically it was Alameda SBF: FTX SBF: correct https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23462333/sam-bankman-fried-ftx-cryptocurrency-effective-altruism-crypto-bahamas-philanthropy https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23462333/sam-bankman-frie...

tremarley 4y ago

FTX collapsed due to accounting mistakes and using illiquid tokens as collateral. What sources show that SBF stole customer deposits?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
zeven7 4y ago
See my reply to the similar comment in this thread and https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23462333/sam-bankman-fried-ftx-cryptocurrency-effective-altruism-crypto-bahamas-philanthropy https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23462333/sam-bankman-frie... Customers deposited funds for FTX to hold. FTX said "We're holding your funds; they're safe." FTX no longer has the customer funds. Why? They gave them to Alameda and Alameda traded with them and lost them (or maybe stashed some of it somewhere). That's theft, not accounting mistakes.
- tremarley 4y ago
  From the moment they launched, their terms claimed that FTT will be used as collateral to borrow money from their FTX platform. FTX wasn't and isn't the only protocol CEX that does this. When Facebook sells our data to advertisers, their not stealing it. It's in their terms. It doesn't make it a fair or great thing though.
  - votepaunchy 4y ago
    Would it be stealing if $1 of crypto was “borrowed” for $0.02 of FTT? Digital copying is not theft, but since crypto cannot be copied I am fine with calling FTX’s actions stealing.
  - zeven7 4y ago
    I would be very interested to see a citation and also to know what other large exchanges do this.
  - siftrics 4y ago