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Cops in america already shoot way too many people. Do you think giving them the ability to do that from a remote location is going to help?

POiNTx 4y ago
I'm not pro gun or even American, but to me it seems a lot of those shootings happen in high stress situations, not in a remotely controlled environment.
- pstuart 4y ago
  A lot of the stress is manifested by the police themselves (which is an issue specifically called out by the "defund the police" movement, e.g., mental health crises when the better path is deescalation by trained mental health workers)
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    Have you followed up on those "trained mental health workers"? Yeah they stopped going on calls unless cops were present because they kept getting injured or used as hostages.
    - greenhorn360 4y ago
      This isn't even remotely true. My city, Portland, etc. Have had great success with these programs. The vast majority of calls they respond to don't require police. Please cite your sources (or any evidence at all) if you're going to make statements like that.
    - antiterra 4y ago
      Genuinely curious, do you have a source handy for that?
    - bandyaboot 4y ago
      I did a search on this to see if I could find some source of what you’re referring to. Came up with nothing. Most of the information out there on this topic is in stark contrast to what you’re saying here.
    - pstuart 4y ago
      Yes, there's a model program in Eugene, OR that's being adopted elsewhere because of its success: https://www.vera.org/behavioral-health-crisis-alternatives/cahoots https://www.vera.org/behavioral-health-crisis-alternatives/c... It seems you're proposing that the only sensible option is always more cops.
- cyberphobe 4y ago
  Usually the high stress situation is manufactured entirely or significantly heightened by the officers involved
  - Spivak 4y ago
    Which is why I think I might be on board with this. The “police are professionals trained to keep their cool even in life threatening situations” boat sailed ages ago. So making it so police aren’t in the life threatening situation at all might be a win.
    - chimeracoder 4y ago
      > So making it so police aren’t in the life threatening situation at all might be a win. Cops routinely kill people even when there's no reasonable way to claim they were in a "life threatening situation". All this will do is make it easier for cops to kill people and evade accountability.
    - heavyset_go 4y ago
      Not being in life threatening situations hasn't stopped cops from killing people before. Robots are not going to solve the problem of people abusing the power they're given because they can. I'd argue that it would exacerbate it. I don't see anything good coming from turning shooting real people into a video game for cops.
    - cyberphobe 4y ago
      Police being in life threatening situations is a bullshit excuse. None of these killings have the police been in a life threatening situation. They’re just murderous thugs, we should stop buying them expensive toys and start locking them up when they commit crimes
- makeitdouble 4y ago
  Not an American either. I'd wager it's hard to come up with actual numbers on how many of those happen in high stress situations and how many are triggered by the police themselves. The main issue to my understanding is that you can't trust police reports as they have no incentive to write their motives plainly, and no peer pressure to expose bad reporting.
hunterb123 4y ago
So you think sending in humans is the better option? - REPLYING TO BELOW - > Why does anyone or anything need to “go in”? There are plenty of other ways to deal with these situations instead of pretending to be Seal Team Six. Such as? Like a large magnet to pull the guns out of their hand? Sometimes these situations will only result in shootouts, like busting a drug operation of a gang. Then you have to go in to protect other citizens. Sending in a robot would then be safer. And it's been done before. > Working on having less guns would be a start. In terms of "less lethal" pepper spray is usually pretty good Sure, but that's not today, gangs currently have guns. Drug busts currently have dangers. (note I don't agree that guns are the problem, if anything everyone should be armed)
- salad-fan 4y ago
  Why does anyone or anything need to “go in”? There are plenty of other ways to deal with these situations instead of pretending to be Seal Team Six.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    Dead bystanders is usually considered poor form.
    - falcolas 4y ago
      Tell that to the Uvalde police department. Police are concerned with their own lives. They have no duty to protect anybody else’s lives
      - vorpalhex 4y ago
        That's a fixable problem. Police could have a legally mandated ethics code similar to lawyers and fiduciary duty. I do believe, ethically speaking, Uvalde officers should be criminally charged. There's no legal basis of course.
        4y ago
darkteflon 4y ago
I think these two things are orthogonal. Less gun violence is always good, of course, but it’s not clear to me that introducing a robot would necessarily increase shooting incidents in law enforcement scenarios. Perhaps military use of drones is a good analogy - although not perfect, since there the goal is often inflicting violence rather than avoiding it. Would be interested to hear from anyone with knowledge.
2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
Cops shoot people because they fear for their lives. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

POiNTx 4y ago

I'm not pro gun or even American, but to me it seems a lot of those shootings happen in high stress situations, not in a remotely controlled environment.

pstuart 4y ago
A lot of the stress is manifested by the police themselves (which is an issue specifically called out by the "defund the police" movement, e.g., mental health crises when the better path is deescalation by trained mental health workers)
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  Have you followed up on those "trained mental health workers"? Yeah they stopped going on calls unless cops were present because they kept getting injured or used as hostages.
  - greenhorn360 4y ago
    This isn't even remotely true. My city, Portland, etc. Have had great success with these programs. The vast majority of calls they respond to don't require police. Please cite your sources (or any evidence at all) if you're going to make statements like that.
  - antiterra 4y ago
    Genuinely curious, do you have a source handy for that?
  - bandyaboot 4y ago
    I did a search on this to see if I could find some source of what you’re referring to. Came up with nothing. Most of the information out there on this topic is in stark contrast to what you’re saying here.
  - pstuart 4y ago
    Yes, there's a model program in Eugene, OR that's being adopted elsewhere because of its success: https://www.vera.org/behavioral-health-crisis-alternatives/cahoots https://www.vera.org/behavioral-health-crisis-alternatives/c... It seems you're proposing that the only sensible option is always more cops.
cyberphobe 4y ago
Usually the high stress situation is manufactured entirely or significantly heightened by the officers involved
- Spivak 4y ago
  Which is why I think I might be on board with this. The “police are professionals trained to keep their cool even in life threatening situations” boat sailed ages ago. So making it so police aren’t in the life threatening situation at all might be a win.
  - chimeracoder 4y ago
    > So making it so police aren’t in the life threatening situation at all might be a win. Cops routinely kill people even when there's no reasonable way to claim they were in a "life threatening situation". All this will do is make it easier for cops to kill people and evade accountability.
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    Not being in life threatening situations hasn't stopped cops from killing people before. Robots are not going to solve the problem of people abusing the power they're given because they can. I'd argue that it would exacerbate it. I don't see anything good coming from turning shooting real people into a video game for cops.
  - cyberphobe 4y ago
    Police being in life threatening situations is a bullshit excuse. None of these killings have the police been in a life threatening situation. They’re just murderous thugs, we should stop buying them expensive toys and start locking them up when they commit crimes
makeitdouble 4y ago
Not an American either. I'd wager it's hard to come up with actual numbers on how many of those happen in high stress situations and how many are triggered by the police themselves. The main issue to my understanding is that you can't trust police reports as they have no incentive to write their motives plainly, and no peer pressure to expose bad reporting.

hunterb123 4y ago

So you think sending in humans is the better option? - REPLYING TO BELOW - > Why does anyone or anything need to “go in”? There are plenty of other ways to deal with these situations instead of pretending to be Seal Team Six. Such as? Like a large magnet to pull the guns out of their hand? Sometimes these situations will only result in shootouts, like busting a drug operation of a gang. Then you have to go in to protect other citizens. Sending in a robot would then be safer. And it's been done before. > Working on having less guns would be a start. In terms of "less lethal" pepper spray is usually pretty good Sure, but that's not today, gangs currently have guns. Drug busts currently have dangers. (note I don't agree that guns are the problem, if anything everyone should be armed)

salad-fan 4y ago
Why does anyone or anything need to “go in”? There are plenty of other ways to deal with these situations instead of pretending to be Seal Team Six.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  Dead bystanders is usually considered poor form.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    Tell that to the Uvalde police department. Police are concerned with their own lives. They have no duty to protect anybody else’s lives
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      That's a fixable problem. Police could have a legally mandated ethics code similar to lawyers and fiduciary duty. I do believe, ethically speaking, Uvalde officers should be criminally charged. There's no legal basis of course.
      - 4y ago

darkteflon 4y ago

I think these two things are orthogonal. Less gun violence is always good, of course, but it’s not clear to me that introducing a robot would necessarily increase shooting incidents in law enforcement scenarios. Perhaps military use of drones is a good analogy - although not perfect, since there the goal is often inflicting violence rather than avoiding it. Would be interested to hear from anyone with knowledge.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago

Cops shoot people because they fear for their lives. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.