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It’s because people are looking at him and saying, “whoa, I can behave like that and not only get away with it, but win by it?!” There’s room for sincere curio

It’s because people are looking at him and saying, “whoa, I can behave like that and not only get away with it, but win by it?!” There’s room for sincere curiosity about what’s going on and what’ll happen, but a lot of what I see online is people just relishing in the sadism of the whole ordeal.

abathur 4y ago
The cruelty does seem to be the point. Not sure how we escape the gravity of it.
- andirk 4y ago
  Part of the mostly made up version of the American Dream is like "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" which oddly also implies "and then once you have, close the door behind you. Don't want this party getting too crowded". My point is that fetishizing capitalism requires a taste for squeezing others for all their worth. If others aren't, then that means you endured that bootstrap pain for no reason!
ilyt 4y ago
I mean, if you don't like Twitter, and don't like musk, the whole thing is very entertaining
- abathur 4y ago
  lulz certainly abound here--there's been a lot of great comedy in this. But I read the GP to mean they've seen people crossing a thin line. I doubt any of us are above a bit of schadenfreude when the fates deal a fair dose of karma to someone we think deserves it. But actively cheering (and trying to multiply, in the case of aggressive trolling) the sadism in public is a kind of dark prayer.
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    Spot on.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    Oh, some highly paid people (that made product that actively made society worse) will need to find a new job, how utterly sadistic /s
    - ethanbond 4y ago
      Finding pleasure in the suffering of other people is quite literally the definition of sadism. Be proud of it if you want, but that’s what it is. Also, it’s very obviously not true that all the people who lost their jobs are highly paid. It’s curious how this self-deception keeps appearing among people who are cheering it on.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  I think this is nearly as destructive of a perspective. People have become way, way too obsessed with what is entertaining and are willing to accept way too much horrible stuff in the name of the lulz. It’s really not a game show. There are important ideas being tested and norms being created (or destroyed).
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    How is it horrible? In my view, Twitter is actively harmful to society, so seeing it crash and burn is not only funny, but looks like a good thing, even if it means some highly-paid SWEs need to find new jobs.
    - ethanbond 4y ago
      A 160MM+ DAU social network “crashing and burning” doesn’t mean “poof” one night and it’s gone. The biggest self-own in the industry will be if Elon is successful and then the whole software industry suddenly is inspired not by (yes, perhaps excessive) kindness/comfort/generosity of a good work life but by cut throat PE-style management with an added layer of emotional manchild tantrums. There’s a reason VCs are cheering this on and it’s because lower standards in the software industry will save them all money.
      - midoridensha 4y ago
        Well hopefully Twitter will completely implode and what's left will be sold off for a tiny, tiny fraction of what Elon spent for it. Then the VCs will have to come to grips with the idea that having lower standards and cutthroat management doesn't result in profitability, but rather utter failure.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    Well I see Twitter in its previous form as actively harmful to society, especially since few years ago when Twitter decided that they no longer just show what's popular but actively manipulate it [1]. Like, the short format was bad enough on its own (encourages shouting in the void instead of actual discussion), and that's just more bad on top of bad And I also see musk's compulsive lying and arrogance as harmful, althought in more limited scope. So from my perspective it's one bad thing destroying other bad thing. What's not to be happy about ? Sure, Twitter transforming into not a vile piece of shit it is today into something decent would also be nice outcome but I don't even know how that would work so it burning is next best thing. * [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2022/11/14/japanese-twitter-trends-shift-away-from-politics-to-pop-culture-after-curation-team-is-laid-off/?sh=ae7a27427762 https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2022/11/14/japanese...

abathur 4y ago

The cruelty does seem to be the point. Not sure how we escape the gravity of it.

andirk 4y ago
Part of the mostly made up version of the American Dream is like "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" which oddly also implies "and then once you have, close the door behind you. Don't want this party getting too crowded". My point is that fetishizing capitalism requires a taste for squeezing others for all their worth. If others aren't, then that means you endured that bootstrap pain for no reason!

ilyt 4y ago

I mean, if you don't like Twitter, and don't like musk, the whole thing is very entertaining

abathur 4y ago
lulz certainly abound here--there's been a lot of great comedy in this. But I read the GP to mean they've seen people crossing a thin line. I doubt any of us are above a bit of schadenfreude when the fates deal a fair dose of karma to someone we think deserves it. But actively cheering (and trying to multiply, in the case of aggressive trolling) the sadism in public is a kind of dark prayer.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  Spot on.
- ilyt 4y ago
  Oh, some highly paid people (that made product that actively made society worse) will need to find a new job, how utterly sadistic /s
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    Finding pleasure in the suffering of other people is quite literally the definition of sadism. Be proud of it if you want, but that’s what it is. Also, it’s very obviously not true that all the people who lost their jobs are highly paid. It’s curious how this self-deception keeps appearing among people who are cheering it on.
ethanbond 4y ago
I think this is nearly as destructive of a perspective. People have become way, way too obsessed with what is entertaining and are willing to accept way too much horrible stuff in the name of the lulz. It’s really not a game show. There are important ideas being tested and norms being created (or destroyed).
- midoridensha 4y ago
  How is it horrible? In my view, Twitter is actively harmful to society, so seeing it crash and burn is not only funny, but looks like a good thing, even if it means some highly-paid SWEs need to find new jobs.
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    A 160MM+ DAU social network “crashing and burning” doesn’t mean “poof” one night and it’s gone. The biggest self-own in the industry will be if Elon is successful and then the whole software industry suddenly is inspired not by (yes, perhaps excessive) kindness/comfort/generosity of a good work life but by cut throat PE-style management with an added layer of emotional manchild tantrums. There’s a reason VCs are cheering this on and it’s because lower standards in the software industry will save them all money.
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      Well hopefully Twitter will completely implode and what's left will be sold off for a tiny, tiny fraction of what Elon spent for it. Then the VCs will have to come to grips with the idea that having lower standards and cutthroat management doesn't result in profitability, but rather utter failure.
- ilyt 4y ago
  Well I see Twitter in its previous form as actively harmful to society, especially since few years ago when Twitter decided that they no longer just show what's popular but actively manipulate it [1]. Like, the short format was bad enough on its own (encourages shouting in the void instead of actual discussion), and that's just more bad on top of bad And I also see musk's compulsive lying and arrogance as harmful, althought in more limited scope. So from my perspective it's one bad thing destroying other bad thing. What's not to be happy about ? Sure, Twitter transforming into not a vile piece of shit it is today into something decent would also be nice outcome but I don't even know how that would work so it burning is next best thing. * [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2022/11/14/japanese-twitter-trends-shift-away-from-politics-to-pop-culture-after-curation-team-is-laid-off/?sh=ae7a27427762 https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2022/11/14/japanese...