6 ms·

Northern communities in Canada are a perfect application of this tech. Currently, they mostly burn diesel for power.

jbm 4y ago
This sort of technology is something the provincial governments are interested in. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nuclear-energy-alberta-ucp-small-scale-modular-reactors-government-of-canada-1.5677983 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nuclear-energy-albert...
yabones 4y ago
Might also be good for concrete production, perhaps. Most cement plants burn loads of coal to heat up the limestone, producing loads of CO2 in the process. Not sure if this reactor could heat up the kiln to >1,000C. Seems like there's some interest in the UK, so perhaps this could be a good solution for on-site production in remote areas... https://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/hinkley-points-nuclear-option https://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/hinkley-poi...
- reverendbedford 4y ago
  Sodium reactor outlet temperatures are around 550 C. There are other reactor concepts that come close to 1000 C, but it's a huge technical challenge.
  - drjasonharrison 4y ago
    Electric heating?
    - reverendbedford 4y ago
      That works for some processes (making aluminum and more recently steel) but I'm not aware of any electrically heated processes for making concrete. Cheap, clean electricity could unlock a lot of things though.
      - nine_k 4y ago
        Heating by electricity is not a problem. But both production and setting of concrete chemically produce CO2.
        bbojan 4y ago
        Hydraulic cement does not produce CO2 during setting. Non-hydraulic cement actually consumes CO2 while setting.
        wiml 4y ago
        Doesn't it essentially just re-absorb the same co2 it emitted when it was made?
        bbojan 4y ago
        Yes. I was replying to parent's comment that concrete produces CO2 when setting, which is clearly not the case for hydraulic cement.
      - HPsquared 4y ago
        Probably, like for steel production, it would involve producing hydrogen then using that as a heat source.
      - tetrep 4y ago
        I read an article about this recently and there's at least one company working on exactly such a process: > Swedish green-tech firm SaltX Technology demonstrated that it can produce clinker with its Electric Arc Calciner: a proprietary system similar to the plasma torches widely used by automakers and other manufacturers for cutting metal. Plasma torches pass an electric current through a jet of inert gas, typically nitrogen or argon, which ionizes the gas and heats it to temperatures over 20,000 degrees Celsius. In June, SaltX announced a partnership with the Swedish limestone supplier SMA Mineral to accelerate commercialization of its technology. Article: https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/the-road-to-low-carbon-concrete/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/the-road-to-low-carb...
- aaronbrethorst 4y ago
  Science writer David Roberts had a long conversation with Rebecca Dell from ClimateWorks about decarbonizing heavy industry back in February. Lots more detail here if that’s of interest to you: https://www.volts.wtf/p/volts-podcast-rebecca-dell-on-decarbonizing#details https://www.volts.wtf/p/volts-podcast-rebecca-dell-on-decarb... (n.b. copy and paste of my comment from 24 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33396422 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33396422)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Nomentatus 4y ago
There will be surplus power, but that's not a bad thing - make bricks for housing with it; breakage (power not yet strictly needed) can go to indoor greenhouses, etc.
- nine_k 4y ago
  Desalinating seawater can consume huge amounts of surplus power, not necessarily stable. (Extracting lithium, uranium, thorium, gold from the brine could be a bonus step.)
  - Nomentatus 4y ago
    There aren't a lot of places in the north where you'd need desalination; streams suffice for thin populations. Elsewhere in the world, I can see that.
    - nine_k 4y ago
      Indeed so! Closer to tropics, such places abound though. "Excess" solar generation can go there. Unlike in the north, where there's no excess.
      - Nomentatus 4y ago
        Honestly, I've been looking at just that in combination with agricultural/reforestation techs for a couple years now. Australia is way bigger than the maps make it look, Africa too. Find an area near a volcano you can rob and grind for soil and you'll do very well once energy is cheap enough. Due to climate change - esp in future - many locations will require heat control via shade (not too dense solar farms) and evaporation (of sea water on cardboard in one trial.) No doubt the current food shortage is temporary, the solutions emerge inevitably from cheaper energy (and AI farm equipment.)
fatneckbeardz 4y ago
all the communities that survive by selling diesel will see it as negative.
bboygravity 4y ago
All communities in the world except maybe France (already nuclear) and some hydro-electric countries are a perfect application of this tech. Currently, most of the world burns diesel/coal/gas for most of their energy needs and politicians are actively preventing that from changing. PS: oh hello Germany, looking at you specifically.
- kuschku 4y ago
  Sure, if you want to scrap all renewable energy and run your entire grid solely on nuclear, that can work. But what you can't do is mix them, as you can't regulate the output from nuclear reactors fast enough to work together with renewable energy plants.
  - mike_hearn 4y ago
    you can't regulate the output from nuclear reactors fast enough From the article: "The company touts the microreactor’s solid core and advanced heat pipes, which enable passive cooling and also allow for autonomous operation and load following."
    - Schroedingersat 4y ago
      Load following to change your thermal output over minutes or hours isn't frequency correcting which isn't grid stability. Steam turbines can't change speed quickly. Some exotic closed CO2 turbine might.
  - Orothrim 4y ago
    I recommend looking into base vs peak loading for the energy grid. Nuclear is good as base load power, batteries are good for peak loading and renewables are good for charging batteries.
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    It's fairly easy to mix nuclear and renewables technically, it just doesn't make much financial sense in most places, particularly if you have to build new nuclear or if you're not too near the poles.

jbm 4y ago

This sort of technology is something the provincial governments are interested in. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nuclear-energy-alberta-ucp-small-scale-modular-reactors-government-of-canada-1.5677983 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nuclear-energy-albert...

yabones 4y ago

Might also be good for concrete production, perhaps. Most cement plants burn loads of coal to heat up the limestone, producing loads of CO2 in the process. Not sure if this reactor could heat up the kiln to >1,000C. Seems like there's some interest in the UK, so perhaps this could be a good solution for on-site production in remote areas... https://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/hinkley-points-nuclear-option https://www.theconstructionindex.co.uk/news/view/hinkley-poi...

reverendbedford 4y ago
Sodium reactor outlet temperatures are around 550 C. There are other reactor concepts that come close to 1000 C, but it's a huge technical challenge.
- drjasonharrison 4y ago
  Electric heating?
  - reverendbedford 4y ago
    That works for some processes (making aluminum and more recently steel) but I'm not aware of any electrically heated processes for making concrete. Cheap, clean electricity could unlock a lot of things though.
    - nine_k 4y ago
      Heating by electricity is not a problem. But both production and setting of concrete chemically produce CO2.
      - bbojan 4y ago
        Hydraulic cement does not produce CO2 during setting. Non-hydraulic cement actually consumes CO2 while setting.
        wiml 4y ago
        Doesn't it essentially just re-absorb the same co2 it emitted when it was made?
        bbojan 4y ago
        Yes. I was replying to parent's comment that concrete produces CO2 when setting, which is clearly not the case for hydraulic cement.
    - HPsquared 4y ago
      Probably, like for steel production, it would involve producing hydrogen then using that as a heat source.
    - tetrep 4y ago
      I read an article about this recently and there's at least one company working on exactly such a process: > Swedish green-tech firm SaltX Technology demonstrated that it can produce clinker with its Electric Arc Calciner: a proprietary system similar to the plasma torches widely used by automakers and other manufacturers for cutting metal. Plasma torches pass an electric current through a jet of inert gas, typically nitrogen or argon, which ionizes the gas and heats it to temperatures over 20,000 degrees Celsius. In June, SaltX announced a partnership with the Swedish limestone supplier SMA Mineral to accelerate commercialization of its technology. Article: https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/the-road-to-low-carbon-concrete/ https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/11/the-road-to-low-carb...
aaronbrethorst 4y ago
Science writer David Roberts had a long conversation with Rebecca Dell from ClimateWorks about decarbonizing heavy industry back in February. Lots more detail here if that’s of interest to you: https://www.volts.wtf/p/volts-podcast-rebecca-dell-on-decarbonizing#details https://www.volts.wtf/p/volts-podcast-rebecca-dell-on-decarb... (n.b. copy and paste of my comment from 24 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33396422 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33396422)

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Nomentatus 4y ago

There will be surplus power, but that's not a bad thing - make bricks for housing with it; breakage (power not yet strictly needed) can go to indoor greenhouses, etc.

nine_k 4y ago
Desalinating seawater can consume huge amounts of surplus power, not necessarily stable. (Extracting lithium, uranium, thorium, gold from the brine could be a bonus step.)
- Nomentatus 4y ago
  There aren't a lot of places in the north where you'd need desalination; streams suffice for thin populations. Elsewhere in the world, I can see that.
  - nine_k 4y ago
    Indeed so! Closer to tropics, such places abound though. "Excess" solar generation can go there. Unlike in the north, where there's no excess.
    - Nomentatus 4y ago
      Honestly, I've been looking at just that in combination with agricultural/reforestation techs for a couple years now. Australia is way bigger than the maps make it look, Africa too. Find an area near a volcano you can rob and grind for soil and you'll do very well once energy is cheap enough. Due to climate change - esp in future - many locations will require heat control via shade (not too dense solar farms) and evaporation (of sea water on cardboard in one trial.) No doubt the current food shortage is temporary, the solutions emerge inevitably from cheaper energy (and AI farm equipment.)

fatneckbeardz 4y ago

all the communities that survive by selling diesel will see it as negative.

bboygravity 4y ago

All communities in the world except maybe France (already nuclear) and some hydro-electric countries are a perfect application of this tech. Currently, most of the world burns diesel/coal/gas for most of their energy needs and politicians are actively preventing that from changing. PS: oh hello Germany, looking at you specifically.

kuschku 4y ago
Sure, if you want to scrap all renewable energy and run your entire grid solely on nuclear, that can work. But what you can't do is mix them, as you can't regulate the output from nuclear reactors fast enough to work together with renewable energy plants.
- mike_hearn 4y ago
  you can't regulate the output from nuclear reactors fast enough From the article: "The company touts the microreactor’s solid core and advanced heat pipes, which enable passive cooling and also allow for autonomous operation and load following."
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    Load following to change your thermal output over minutes or hours isn't frequency correcting which isn't grid stability. Steam turbines can't change speed quickly. Some exotic closed CO2 turbine might.
- Orothrim 4y ago
  I recommend looking into base vs peak loading for the energy grid. Nuclear is good as base load power, batteries are good for peak loading and renewables are good for charging batteries.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  It's fairly easy to mix nuclear and renewables technically, it just doesn't make much financial sense in most places, particularly if you have to build new nuclear or if you're not too near the poles.