7 ms·

I don't think it's fair to judge what is a "waste of life" or not. What one wants to do with their own life is a subjective thing. Each have their own interests

I don't think it's fair to judge what is a "waste of life" or not. What one wants to do with their own life is a subjective thing. Each have their own interests, comfort zones, and personal struggles that they have to deal with.

markdestouches 4y ago
There are two different types of "want". You want to live a full and meaningful life. You also want another cigarette if you're addicted to smoking. Sure there are people who would consciously choose a cigarette, but they are a minority. Most people would rather be productive and do something that makes their lives better even if they end up lighting a cigarette.
- yamazakiwi 4y ago
  Don't confuse output with productivity. You can also do "productive" things while you smoke a cigarette (albeit physically unhealthy). Many people do a lot of things they think are productive but see no improvement in outcomes. i.e. reading articles
  - bscphil 4y ago
    > Many people do a lot of things they think are productive but see no improvement in outcomes. i.e. reading articles Or to put a different spin on this, some people spend so much time producing things that they never pick up a book.
- ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago
  You're already positioning yourself in a very specific value framework when you put productivity and self-improvement at the forefront. There are many other frameworks in which finding pleasure in the present has value. I've known people who chased the future so hard they never took the time to live.
  - dools 4y ago
    So if they had watched more TV would that have constituted “taking the time to live”?
    - ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago
      If watching TV had brought them pleasure in the present, yes that would fit the definition I was using.
  - markdestouches 4y ago
    I believe I've addressed that saying that some would consciously pick a cigarette. I think it is reasonable to say that such people are a minority.
- sneak 4y ago
  Consider a moment the framework where people's actions tell the truth about their true wants, and the possibility that many people constantly and effortlessly tell lies (to themselves and others) about what they actually want.
luckylion 4y ago
Waste is waste, that's not a judgement about the person wasting something, it's a description of what's happening. If you throw away food, you're wasting it. You might be allergic to it, but that doesn't change the "thrown-away food is food-waste" bit, it just explains why you don't want that food around.
- Karrot_Kream 4y ago
  Then can you come up with a rigorous definition of "waste" here that others would agree with? Definitions usually require consensus.
  - afarrell 4y ago
    Resources spent which, after their consumption, do not result in an experience which a human would look back upon with fondness or gratitude.
  - cpsns 4y ago
    Probably not, because video game addicts will not admit they have an issue, much less one that wastes valuable time.
- willis936 4y ago
  I'm wasting my life working on world changing problems when I could be spending it playing WoW.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    Doesn't it get incredible repetitive and boring with time? You get a new extension/DLC and you have a few new things to discover and monsters to slay or whatever, and then it's back to farming gold? At that point, you're probably 'playing' it because of the social interaction with other people, aren't you?
    - willis936 4y ago
      I'm playing devil's advocate. I haven't actually played much WoW, but I have spent a long time thinking about escapism with a critical eye. It's one of my biggest regrets. I encourage people to waste their time. I was the happiest when I had free time to putz around with games and hobbies. I made stuff for the joy of it. I wouldn't wish a successful career on my worst enemy. I don't see any utility in distinguishing between flavors of escapism. Why would productivity make a judge say one waste of time is better than another? Because that judge doesn't see the value in wasting time and the ones with creativity seem more like work and less like fun.
adas4044 4y ago
Exactly. I think there are really 3 main ways I view time spent. - 1. Time spent learning a skill with economic value. - 2. Time spent for leasure. - 3. Time spent to fulfill biological needs (eating, sleep, etc.) No. 1 can be pretty subjective and time where input does not correlate to output. Ages ago, learning to be a blacksmith was a very economically in-demand skill, but today it would at best be considered a hobby. No. 1 is time spent to obtain needs as well as wants. Everyone must have some source of income for food, shelter, etc. No. 2 can be anything that one does for enjoyment. I find it pointless to argue about what kind of enjoyment is "productive" or "wasteful" because each form of enjoyment is just getting better at a skill whether that be video games or playing violin. The only "productive" entertainment would be something that advances your economic value (thus being more of a No. 1 spend of time. The best would be to try and combine time into something that is both advances your economic value as well as is something you enjoy.
fidesomnes 4y ago
bigDinosaur 4y ago
Do you really think an addict is in control of what they really want? Or are their life choices being made for them? I found it was kind of the latter when I'd say I was 'addicted' to gaming. It was what I wanted in the immediate moment but far from what I wanted in my life overall. The latter gets destroyed by many short term wants, such as drugs or the kind of internet use r/nosurf exists to counter.

markdestouches 4y ago

There are two different types of "want". You want to live a full and meaningful life. You also want another cigarette if you're addicted to smoking. Sure there are people who would consciously choose a cigarette, but they are a minority. Most people would rather be productive and do something that makes their lives better even if they end up lighting a cigarette.

yamazakiwi 4y ago
Don't confuse output with productivity. You can also do "productive" things while you smoke a cigarette (albeit physically unhealthy). Many people do a lot of things they think are productive but see no improvement in outcomes. i.e. reading articles
- bscphil 4y ago
  > Many people do a lot of things they think are productive but see no improvement in outcomes. i.e. reading articles Or to put a different spin on this, some people spend so much time producing things that they never pick up a book.
ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago
You're already positioning yourself in a very specific value framework when you put productivity and self-improvement at the forefront. There are many other frameworks in which finding pleasure in the present has value. I've known people who chased the future so hard they never took the time to live.
- dools 4y ago
  So if they had watched more TV would that have constituted “taking the time to live”?
  - ad404b8a372f2b9 4y ago
    If watching TV had brought them pleasure in the present, yes that would fit the definition I was using.
- markdestouches 4y ago
  I believe I've addressed that saying that some would consciously pick a cigarette. I think it is reasonable to say that such people are a minority.
sneak 4y ago
Consider a moment the framework where people's actions tell the truth about their true wants, and the possibility that many people constantly and effortlessly tell lies (to themselves and others) about what they actually want.

luckylion 4y ago

Waste is waste, that's not a judgement about the person wasting something, it's a description of what's happening. If you throw away food, you're wasting it. You might be allergic to it, but that doesn't change the "thrown-away food is food-waste" bit, it just explains why you don't want that food around.

Karrot_Kream 4y ago
Then can you come up with a rigorous definition of "waste" here that others would agree with? Definitions usually require consensus.
- afarrell 4y ago
  Resources spent which, after their consumption, do not result in an experience which a human would look back upon with fondness or gratitude.
- cpsns 4y ago
  Probably not, because video game addicts will not admit they have an issue, much less one that wastes valuable time.
willis936 4y ago
I'm wasting my life working on world changing problems when I could be spending it playing WoW.
- luckylion 4y ago
  Doesn't it get incredible repetitive and boring with time? You get a new extension/DLC and you have a few new things to discover and monsters to slay or whatever, and then it's back to farming gold? At that point, you're probably 'playing' it because of the social interaction with other people, aren't you?
  - willis936 4y ago
    I'm playing devil's advocate. I haven't actually played much WoW, but I have spent a long time thinking about escapism with a critical eye. It's one of my biggest regrets. I encourage people to waste their time. I was the happiest when I had free time to putz around with games and hobbies. I made stuff for the joy of it. I wouldn't wish a successful career on my worst enemy. I don't see any utility in distinguishing between flavors of escapism. Why would productivity make a judge say one waste of time is better than another? Because that judge doesn't see the value in wasting time and the ones with creativity seem more like work and less like fun.

adas4044 4y ago

Exactly. I think there are really 3 main ways I view time spent. - 1. Time spent learning a skill with economic value. - 2. Time spent for leasure. - 3. Time spent to fulfill biological needs (eating, sleep, etc.) No. 1 can be pretty subjective and time where input does not correlate to output. Ages ago, learning to be a blacksmith was a very economically in-demand skill, but today it would at best be considered a hobby. No. 1 is time spent to obtain needs as well as wants. Everyone must have some source of income for food, shelter, etc. No. 2 can be anything that one does for enjoyment. I find it pointless to argue about what kind of enjoyment is "productive" or "wasteful" because each form of enjoyment is just getting better at a skill whether that be video games or playing violin. The only "productive" entertainment would be something that advances your economic value (thus being more of a No. 1 spend of time. The best would be to try and combine time into something that is both advances your economic value as well as is something you enjoy.

fidesomnes 4y ago

bigDinosaur 4y ago

Do you really think an addict is in control of what they really want? Or are their life choices being made for them? I found it was kind of the latter when I'd say I was 'addicted' to gaming. It was what I wanted in the immediate moment but far from what I wanted in my life overall. The latter gets destroyed by many short term wants, such as drugs or the kind of internet use r/nosurf exists to counter.