3 ms·

It would be great if they could achieve this goal. What options do you see that could be used right away?

BoGoToTo 4y ago
I think as of today the most efficient approach is pumped storage hydropower. However that is severely limited by geography
- bluefirebrand 4y ago
  I'm guessing that available fresh water is something of a limiting factor here as well. We have abundant salt water of course. I imagine that generator turbines don't love salt water very much.
- cupofpython 4y ago
  it is the most efficient in terms of energy transfer. I think it is lacking in terms of actual storage capacity. the upfront costs are also extreme. ideally, every green energy farm would have a gravity well storage system nearby (like pumped storage) for the purposes of keeping discharge steady. Energy would be transferred into and out of this system pretty quickly, and stored in a more cost/size efficient storage option that could act as the true "battery" on dark days / longer periods of energy production downtime
- alexk307 4y ago
  I wonder how difficult this would be to implement for consumers/smaller deployments. Could someone dig an underground pool sized hole for a tank of hot water that can be converted back to electricity?
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    It is really shocking how big of a tank you need for this.
- eande 4y ago
  A good example is the large scale hydropower project in Switzerland where they added 900MW capacity to the grid for storage. They do have a good geography for that. https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/switzerlands-new-energy-asset-hydro-plant-with-capacity-charge-400000-car-2022-08-05/ https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/switze...
PaulHoule 4y ago
Big batteries. For some applications you can store heat. For instance you can have an electric heater with a lot of bricks inside an insulator box in your house and move heat out of it convectively with a fan.
- bluefirebrand 4y ago
  > Big batteries Invest in Lithium mines.
  - Moissanite 4y ago
    For static applications, wouldn't we be better off with batteries based on Sodium chemistry? Less efficient, but removing the geopolitics from one of the main components feels like a pretty big compensating factor.
    - PaulHoule 4y ago
      Don't forget flow batteries using iron, vanadium and other chemistries, as well as various sorts of molten-salt batteries. For fixed installations we could put up with many inconvenient attributes if it gets the cost down.
    - _aavaa_ 4y ago
      Forget geopolitics, if you're installing in your house you want something not known for its explosive capabilities...

I think as of today the most efficient approach is pumped storage hydropower. However that is severely limited by geography

bluefirebrand 4y ago
I'm guessing that available fresh water is something of a limiting factor here as well. We have abundant salt water of course. I imagine that generator turbines don't love salt water very much.
cupofpython 4y ago
it is the most efficient in terms of energy transfer. I think it is lacking in terms of actual storage capacity. the upfront costs are also extreme. ideally, every green energy farm would have a gravity well storage system nearby (like pumped storage) for the purposes of keeping discharge steady. Energy would be transferred into and out of this system pretty quickly, and stored in a more cost/size efficient storage option that could act as the true "battery" on dark days / longer periods of energy production downtime
alexk307 4y ago
I wonder how difficult this would be to implement for consumers/smaller deployments. Could someone dig an underground pool sized hole for a tank of hot water that can be converted back to electricity?
- PaulHoule 4y ago
  It is really shocking how big of a tank you need for this.
eande 4y ago
A good example is the large scale hydropower project in Switzerland where they added 900MW capacity to the grid for storage. They do have a good geography for that. https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/switzerlands-new-energy-asset-hydro-plant-with-capacity-charge-400000-car-2022-08-05/ https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/switze...

PaulHoule 4y ago

Big batteries. For some applications you can store heat. For instance you can have an electric heater with a lot of bricks inside an insulator box in your house and move heat out of it convectively with a fan.

bluefirebrand 4y ago
> Big batteries Invest in Lithium mines.
- Moissanite 4y ago
  For static applications, wouldn't we be better off with batteries based on Sodium chemistry? Less efficient, but removing the geopolitics from one of the main components feels like a pretty big compensating factor.
  - PaulHoule 4y ago
    Don't forget flow batteries using iron, vanadium and other chemistries, as well as various sorts of molten-salt batteries. For fixed installations we could put up with many inconvenient attributes if it gets the cost down.
  - _aavaa_ 4y ago
    Forget geopolitics, if you're installing in your house you want something not known for its explosive capabilities...