4 ms·

With respect, no one has an effective covid vaccine.

by Overtonwindow 4y ago

piva00 4y ago
What's your definition of effective?
- dirtyid 4y ago
  Prevents spread, like original mRNA claims, which pfizer admitted wasn't even tested for. All current vaccines merely prevents serious cases, that PRC traditional vaccines with booster is about as competent in, but will still lead to millions of death + more when limited medical resources overwhelmed. Hence zero covid if sustainable > any current vaccine. A vaccine that prevents spread = dynamic zero / quarantining individuals instead of neighbourhoods would still be viable strategy. The alternative is do what everyone else does, living with covid, and assume % of elderly/vunerable population will die, which with PRC's population denominator = millions.
  - yakak 4y ago
    Each vaccination dose lowered your odds of going to hospital and then your odds of needing ICU care if you were in hospital and then of dying if you were in ICU. From a public health perspective the vaccine is a solution to China having a much higher death rate than a country without vaccination but with much higher health care capacity.
    - dirtyid 4y ago
      Current vax capability is a solution to PRC dealing with covid with 1-2 millions of deaths, maybe not as high as 3-5M estimated excess deaths in India but within that ball park. Issue remains PRC's health care capacity isn't sufficient to address wave severe vaxed cases on ICU, especially with unchecked spread in immune naive gen pop. Politically, millions is still difficult proposition vs essentially none under onerous covid zero, which (IMO) PRC leadership was corned into sustaining by merely demonstrating that state possess the capacity to maintain. Until it can't due to resources or desire, which is where we are now. The broader issue is most of world was constrained to the sole "solution" of living with covid because vax could prevent severe cases but not eliminate spread, whereas CCP has the difficulty of deciding from multiple solutions along the continuum of how fast to live with covid vs zero covid, and it looks like they're currently just "feeling the stones" for best approach. Reality the flexbility of having different solutions other than depending on vax = some solutions will be more wrong than others.

With respect, no one has an effective covid vaccine.

piva00 4y ago

What's your definition of effective?

dirtyid 4y ago
Prevents spread, like original mRNA claims, which pfizer admitted wasn't even tested for. All current vaccines merely prevents serious cases, that PRC traditional vaccines with booster is about as competent in, but will still lead to millions of death + more when limited medical resources overwhelmed. Hence zero covid if sustainable > any current vaccine. A vaccine that prevents spread = dynamic zero / quarantining individuals instead of neighbourhoods would still be viable strategy. The alternative is do what everyone else does, living with covid, and assume % of elderly/vunerable population will die, which with PRC's population denominator = millions.
- yakak 4y ago
  Each vaccination dose lowered your odds of going to hospital and then your odds of needing ICU care if you were in hospital and then of dying if you were in ICU. From a public health perspective the vaccine is a solution to China having a much higher death rate than a country without vaccination but with much higher health care capacity.
  - dirtyid 4y ago
    Current vax capability is a solution to PRC dealing with covid with 1-2 millions of deaths, maybe not as high as 3-5M estimated excess deaths in India but within that ball park. Issue remains PRC's health care capacity isn't sufficient to address wave severe vaxed cases on ICU, especially with unchecked spread in immune naive gen pop. Politically, millions is still difficult proposition vs essentially none under onerous covid zero, which (IMO) PRC leadership was corned into sustaining by merely demonstrating that state possess the capacity to maintain. Until it can't due to resources or desire, which is where we are now. The broader issue is most of world was constrained to the sole "solution" of living with covid because vax could prevent severe cases but not eliminate spread, whereas CCP has the difficulty of deciding from multiple solutions along the continuum of how fast to live with covid vs zero covid, and it looks like they're currently just "feeling the stones" for best approach. Reality the flexbility of having different solutions other than depending on vax = some solutions will be more wrong than others.