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So the Fidesz party of Hungary has passed changes to the Hungarian constitution that will solidify their power even in the face of future electoral defeats. Th

So the Fidesz party of Hungary has passed changes to the Hungarian constitution that will solidify their power even in the face of future electoral defeats. They have done all of this above the table, using the procedures and process of the current constitution. If this is okay, then it means that limitations on democracy are legitimate. If this is not okay, then such power-solidifying measures must be disallowed, even if they are passed above the table using democratically agreed-upon processes and procedures. Therefore, limitations on democracy are legitimate. What Krugman and his friend object to, then, is not the limitation of democracy, but who is doing the limiting. Note that they have no trouble contemplating that the Jobbik party could be outlawed by these new laws, but they are crestfallen that this could happen to the Socialists. Quote: "According to a proposed constitutional amendment, the crimes of the former communist party will be listed in the constitution and the statute of limitations for prosecuting crimes committed during the communist period will be lifted. The former communist party is branded a criminal organization and the current opposition Socialist Party is designated as their legal successor. It is still unclear, legally speaking, what this amendment means. But it is probably not good for the major opposition party." So the Reds may finally face justice for running the secret police, the concentration camps, the brainwashing, and other forms of oppression? Democracy or no democracy, that's payback.

deleted 15y ago
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po 15y ago
I think you're taking a lot out of context to make a point that I'm not sure I understand. First, the democratic constitution allows an amending process so naturally it makes sense that you can repeal it. Transitioning from a democracy with checks and balances to an authoritarian one-party system is 'legitimate' if you want to use that term. The end result is not a democracy. Secondly, don't let your apparent dislike of Krugman cloud your reading of this. Under laws that preceded Fidesz’s election last year, political parties that are anti-constitutional may be banned. Some have suggested that Fidesz could eliminate Jobbik in this way. In fact, Europe probably would not mind if Jobbik were excluded from public life because other European countries can ban extremist parties also. But what about Fidesz’s primary competition – the Socialists? Scheppele's concern with this is not that socialists will get punished, but that the only two viable parties will be eliminated. Democracy or no democracy, that's payback. This statement is so ridiculous I don't know if you mean it seriously or not. Do you mean to say that you would rather have no democracy with revenge than a functioning democracy with unpunished crimes from the past? The laws of a country are not where you go to get 'payback' against people you don't like. You take it to the courts... if you have any left.
- zalew 15y ago
  >This statement is so ridiculous I don't know if you mean it seriously or not. he probably did, I only don't know if it's lack of knowledge or personal political views. I'm not an expert in Hungarian politics, but at least there is common stuff that we 'neighbors' share and happen to understand these situations a bit better than someone on the other side of the ocean. Our second major political party here in Poland are fans of Fidesz agenda, who said that wants Warsaw to be like Budapest. Well, luckily for the moment our nation spoke (during recent elections) that we certainly don't. Being an eastern block country citizen who happens not to be a right wing lunatic, one will probably understand that even post-communist nations need a strong left wing, even if only just to remain sane. This 'payback' stuff is mainly a far-right-wing agenda all around the region, european politics are not a cold war movie and the world is not black and white.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]

po 15y ago

I think you're taking a lot out of context to make a point that I'm not sure I understand. First, the democratic constitution allows an amending process so naturally it makes sense that you can repeal it. Transitioning from a democracy with checks and balances to an authoritarian one-party system is 'legitimate' if you want to use that term. The end result is not a democracy. Secondly, don't let your apparent dislike of Krugman cloud your reading of this. Under laws that preceded Fidesz’s election last year, political parties that are anti-constitutional may be banned. Some have suggested that Fidesz could eliminate Jobbik in this way. In fact, Europe probably would not mind if Jobbik were excluded from public life because other European countries can ban extremist parties also. But what about Fidesz’s primary competition – the Socialists? Scheppele's concern with this is not that socialists will get punished, but that the only two viable parties will be eliminated. Democracy or no democracy, that's payback. This statement is so ridiculous I don't know if you mean it seriously or not. Do you mean to say that you would rather have no democracy with revenge than a functioning democracy with unpunished crimes from the past? The laws of a country are not where you go to get 'payback' against people you don't like. You take it to the courts... if you have any left.

zalew 15y ago
>This statement is so ridiculous I don't know if you mean it seriously or not. he probably did, I only don't know if it's lack of knowledge or personal political views. I'm not an expert in Hungarian politics, but at least there is common stuff that we 'neighbors' share and happen to understand these situations a bit better than someone on the other side of the ocean. Our second major political party here in Poland are fans of Fidesz agenda, who said that wants Warsaw to be like Budapest. Well, luckily for the moment our nation spoke (during recent elections) that we certainly don't. Being an eastern block country citizen who happens not to be a right wing lunatic, one will probably understand that even post-communist nations need a strong left wing, even if only just to remain sane. This 'payback' stuff is mainly a far-right-wing agenda all around the region, european politics are not a cold war movie and the world is not black and white.