4 ms·

I'd be curious if it would be better to be in the city or the country. My hunch is that the city requires more "inputs" to stay survivable (fewer food/water st

by tevon 4y ago

I'd be curious if it would be better to be in the city or the country. My hunch is that the city requires more "inputs" to stay survivable (fewer food/water stockpiles available), dependant on inputs. However cities would also be the focus for recovery efforts and disaster relief. On the flip side, the country has a greater store of natural resources per-capita (water, likely food, heat sources), however would be deprioritized for any kind of support.

philwelch 4y ago
In the long run, country, because you have more room there to build your own off-grid infrastructure.
bluGill 4y ago
Specialization means the country is lacking too. Farmers may have a garden but they count on regular trips to the grocery store. OTOH farms almost universally have fuel tanks and generators and so can get by without the grid for weeks.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
vasco 4y ago
In the country it's also easier to be raided by people who know or suspect you have food and water. One house with nothing around it for miles vs an apartment in a huge building, is basically hiding in a crowd.
- kfarr 4y ago
  Yeah rural folk may last longer then city folk in the short term but then consolidation comes and there are very few winners
  - semireg 4y ago
    Are we still the good guys?
    - kfarr 4y ago
      By that time only bad guys exist, perhaps their descendants carry the seed of good
- aliqot 4y ago
  Careful, it rains lead in the fields.
  - quacked 4y ago
    This is a smart instinct, but the ammunition only lasts so long. Someone deep in the boonies with a good stash will be okay, but anyone within 1-5 day's march near the cities had better be prepared to "stack 'em high' for a long time before the stream of starving city ex-pats slows to a trickle.
    - modoc 4y ago
      You'd probably be surprised by the number of folks who have tens of thousands of rounds. When ammo prices started going up, pretty much everyone I know who shoots at all started buying in bulk. Not saying everyone who has a gun is trained or mentally prepared to shoot trespassers for months on end, but I think a lot of people who think farms and ranches will be easy pickings haven't spent enough time with the folks who live out here.
      - pc86 4y ago
        I shoot recreationally, two guns in the same caliber, maybe once every two months, and have 4-5k rounds stacked in the closet. If you shoot often, and have multiple guns in multiple calibers, 50k rounds is not difficult at all, especially if you have anything "weird" where you will likely buy as much of the ammo as you can find.
    - geomark 4y ago
      What are people's opinions on crossbows as supplemental defense weapons? They lack range and ammo is not compact but they are quite stealthy.
      - quacked 4y ago
        It really depends on how long the power is out. Crossbows were a fearsome weapon of war during the time in history when guns still weren't that accurate or easy to come by. If there's a gap between "people using manufactured ammunition they stockpiled" and "people figure out how to manufacture ammunition and gunpowder reliably like they were in the 1800s before power was ubiquitous", then a crossbow would do quite well.
vladvasiliu 4y ago
I think it would depend on how "total" the collapse would be. For there to be support, something still has to be working to coordinate it. And if nothing is working, it would be interesting to evaluate how long that would take to come back up. Meanwhile, I'd think the country would be better.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
modoc 4y ago
IMHO it's better in the country. We have a backup generator setup that will run everything for a month or so 24x7 or much longer if we only run it a few hours a day. Well water. Propane heat. Deep freezer in the garage full of food. Fully stocked pantry. Our neighbors all have similar setups and we're all very supportive of one another. Our neighbors have large gardens, flocks of sheep, herds of cattle, chickens, etc.... People living in the country are both more used to being self reliant, AND more willing to to help our neighbors (in part because out here emergencies can easily become life or death).
prepend 4y ago
I think in a zombies scenario, the country is best. But in a real world scenario, I think urban or suburban is better due to the greater resources (gas stations with tanks, grocery stores stocked with a few weeks worth of beans, etc). I also think defense is easier in the city as neighbors can band together for local policing, but I think farms would be at risk from criminals who have a gas tank and don’t mind murdering people with no one around to help.
bruce511 4y ago
In the country you can assume it'll take longer to get power back. But, assuming an extended outage, it'll also be safer, and easier in the country. Until of course the city folk get hungry. It'll all be good-will and friendly neighbors in the city until the food runs out. Then lawlessness will go through the roof, and, I expect, the dystopian future of so many movies kicks in. Assuming fuel is scarce, country areas near the city will be raided first. After the first wave of starvations all pretence at civilization ends. For texas-grid failure, there's at least hope from outside. If the hunger can be averted, country-side remains safe. But outside of texas is a whole-country grid. If that comes down hunger will kick in, and texas alone won't have the resources to help. The situation will get _really_bad before it gets better. Ideally the grid would have the ability to come up one station at a time, feeding, and being fed by, the immediate area. But its rarely going to be that simple.
- Smoosh 4y ago
  > until the food runs out Based upon the TP panics during the pandemic, I'd say that just the thought of potential shortages will make some people desperate.
- devman0 4y ago
  There are separate east and west grids outside of Texas.
- mikro2nd 4y ago
  As someone who lives "out in the country" I can tell you from experience that city people will walk right past a field full of food without even recognising that it is food. They're too used to seeing the polished, buffed and packaged thing that ends up in the supermarket.
  - sw104 4y ago
    That sounds quite harsh. People that live in cities aren't stupid.
    - 4y ago
mastazi 4y ago
You can look at history. I am Italian, we had a lot of internal wars and lawlessness in the Middle Ages. Most Italian villages had defence walls. People usually did not live out in the farmland, they only went there during the day to work, then came back within walls in the evening. The current city/suburbs/farmland concept will stop working in the event of societal collapse.

by tevon 4y ago

philwelch 4y ago

In the long run, country, because you have more room there to build your own off-grid infrastructure.

bluGill 4y ago

Specialization means the country is lacking too. Farmers may have a garden but they count on regular trips to the grocery store. OTOH farms almost universally have fuel tanks and generators and so can get by without the grid for weeks.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

vasco 4y ago

In the country it's also easier to be raided by people who know or suspect you have food and water. One house with nothing around it for miles vs an apartment in a huge building, is basically hiding in a crowd.

kfarr 4y ago
Yeah rural folk may last longer then city folk in the short term but then consolidation comes and there are very few winners
- semireg 4y ago
  Are we still the good guys?
  - kfarr 4y ago
    By that time only bad guys exist, perhaps their descendants carry the seed of good
aliqot 4y ago
Careful, it rains lead in the fields.
- quacked 4y ago
  This is a smart instinct, but the ammunition only lasts so long. Someone deep in the boonies with a good stash will be okay, but anyone within 1-5 day's march near the cities had better be prepared to "stack 'em high' for a long time before the stream of starving city ex-pats slows to a trickle.
  - modoc 4y ago
    You'd probably be surprised by the number of folks who have tens of thousands of rounds. When ammo prices started going up, pretty much everyone I know who shoots at all started buying in bulk. Not saying everyone who has a gun is trained or mentally prepared to shoot trespassers for months on end, but I think a lot of people who think farms and ranches will be easy pickings haven't spent enough time with the folks who live out here.
    - pc86 4y ago
      I shoot recreationally, two guns in the same caliber, maybe once every two months, and have 4-5k rounds stacked in the closet. If you shoot often, and have multiple guns in multiple calibers, 50k rounds is not difficult at all, especially if you have anything "weird" where you will likely buy as much of the ammo as you can find.
  - geomark 4y ago
    What are people's opinions on crossbows as supplemental defense weapons? They lack range and ammo is not compact but they are quite stealthy.
    - quacked 4y ago
      It really depends on how long the power is out. Crossbows were a fearsome weapon of war during the time in history when guns still weren't that accurate or easy to come by. If there's a gap between "people using manufactured ammunition they stockpiled" and "people figure out how to manufacture ammunition and gunpowder reliably like they were in the 1800s before power was ubiquitous", then a crossbow would do quite well.

vladvasiliu 4y ago

I think it would depend on how "total" the collapse would be. For there to be support, something still has to be working to coordinate it. And if nothing is working, it would be interesting to evaluate how long that would take to come back up. Meanwhile, I'd think the country would be better.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

modoc 4y ago

IMHO it's better in the country. We have a backup generator setup that will run everything for a month or so 24x7 or much longer if we only run it a few hours a day. Well water. Propane heat. Deep freezer in the garage full of food. Fully stocked pantry. Our neighbors all have similar setups and we're all very supportive of one another. Our neighbors have large gardens, flocks of sheep, herds of cattle, chickens, etc.... People living in the country are both more used to being self reliant, AND more willing to to help our neighbors (in part because out here emergencies can easily become life or death).

prepend 4y ago

I think in a zombies scenario, the country is best. But in a real world scenario, I think urban or suburban is better due to the greater resources (gas stations with tanks, grocery stores stocked with a few weeks worth of beans, etc). I also think defense is easier in the city as neighbors can band together for local policing, but I think farms would be at risk from criminals who have a gas tank and don’t mind murdering people with no one around to help.

bruce511 4y ago

In the country you can assume it'll take longer to get power back. But, assuming an extended outage, it'll also be safer, and easier in the country. Until of course the city folk get hungry. It'll all be good-will and friendly neighbors in the city until the food runs out. Then lawlessness will go through the roof, and, I expect, the dystopian future of so many movies kicks in. Assuming fuel is scarce, country areas near the city will be raided first. After the first wave of starvations all pretence at civilization ends. For texas-grid failure, there's at least hope from outside. If the hunger can be averted, country-side remains safe. But outside of texas is a whole-country grid. If that comes down hunger will kick in, and texas alone won't have the resources to help. The situation will get _really_bad before it gets better. Ideally the grid would have the ability to come up one station at a time, feeding, and being fed by, the immediate area. But its rarely going to be that simple.

Smoosh 4y ago
> until the food runs out Based upon the TP panics during the pandemic, I'd say that just the thought of potential shortages will make some people desperate.
devman0 4y ago
There are separate east and west grids outside of Texas.
mikro2nd 4y ago
As someone who lives "out in the country" I can tell you from experience that city people will walk right past a field full of food without even recognising that it is food. They're too used to seeing the polished, buffed and packaged thing that ends up in the supermarket.
- sw104 4y ago
  That sounds quite harsh. People that live in cities aren't stupid.
  - 4y ago

mastazi 4y ago

You can look at history. I am Italian, we had a lot of internal wars and lawlessness in the Middle Ages. Most Italian villages had defence walls. People usually did not live out in the farmland, they only went there during the day to work, then came back within walls in the evening. The current city/suburbs/farmland concept will stop working in the event of societal collapse.