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> Elon might end up pulling it off. I hope he doesn’t though and I’m going to do what it takes to influence that decision. Wow. That’s a pretty mean-spirited w

> Elon might end up pulling it off. I hope he doesn’t though and I’m going to do what it takes to influence that decision. Wow. That’s a pretty mean-spirited way to go through life. Why not put your efforts into building something positive instead of trying to tear others down?

ss2003 4y ago
Because there are many things that should just be torn down.
Larrikin 4y ago
It's a pretty easy argument that tearing Twitter down and reducing the wealth of the richest guy on paper is building a better world.
- Robotbeat 4y ago
  What's remarkable to me is people cheering desperately for Tesla to fail. Also weird that people were both cheering for Elon to be forced to buy Twitter, then mad that he bought it. Then cheering for Elon Twitter to fail (hoping for advertisers to leave even before any layoffs were announced) and then lambasting Elon for being so mean to lay off people (how can they stay employed if Twitter's revenue fails?). It's really weird.
macintux 4y ago
Arguably it’s better in the long term for civilization if narcissistic bullies don’t succeed.
- kodyo 4y ago
  There will always be government careers for those people to fall back on.
- mlindner 4y ago
  It's only in your opinion that is what he is. If you've actually been following him in detail for any length of time you'd realize that doesn't really describe him.
  - macintux 4y ago
    “Pedo guy”: bully, even ignoring the borderline abusive behavior over the last few weeks. Narcissist? The fact that he’s nominally head of 3 companies, trying to execute a dramatic turnaround on one in real time, but still tweets constantly. Certainly, he has many positive attributes. But, quoting Steve Rogers, I don’t like bullies.
    - Robotbeat 4y ago
      The Pedo guy was one of the dumbest things Elon has done. But it's worth noting that the guy had used a sexually explicit insult against Elon on TV immediately before that. It didn't come out of nowhere. Elon stupidly went much further. Elon is mean to people who are mean to him and nice to people who are nice to him. That makes him kind of easy to manipulate. Neurotypicals (and those with higher social intelligence) know you're supposed to pretend to be nice to people who are mean to you.
      - mhss 4y ago
        I guess you can find excuses to defend anyone, including bullies. I mean, most bullies were bullied and abused themselves, so there's that. What's the excuse for the other points raised by the OP though? + a bunch of other stuff such as firing people and announcing it on Twitter over people disagreeing on Twitter with him? I find amusing all the mental gymnastics Musk followers are doing these days. It does seem like a personality cult. I used to look up to him, read one of his biographies, etc; Plenty to admire from his achievements, but his most recent toxic behaviour and shitty management style has really changed that.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- AlchemistCamp 4y ago
  The problem with that goal, even if one were to assume your assessment of him is correct, is that you'd be advocating for the end of adoption of electric vehicles and keeping humanity a single planet species forever, thus increasing our existential risks. Since his success metric for launching Tesla was the success of green tech itself rather than Tesla's market share and his goals for SpaceX were similarly broad rather than purely financial, making a point of trying to make him fail is also negatively aligned with long term civilizational outcomes. It would take a very petty person to hope that we go back to throwing away rockets after a single use, just because they have a beef with the person in and inspired others to build a reusable one. If you feel that the 2018-2021 era version of Twitter was its ideal state, that's defensible even if a bit odd. But hoping a platform millions love fails, just because of the guy who bought it (and has a track record of doing great things for humanity), then your goal sucks.
  - ryanwaggoner 4y ago
    It’s pretty bizarre take to think that just because Elon has done amazing things for humanity (which I’ll take at face value), that you should root for him to succeed at whatever he does, regardless of how destructive it is. I hope he fails hard at this and returns to making rockets. Tesla could disappear at this point and I don’t think it would matter, but SpaceX feels important still.
    - AlchemistCamp 4y ago
      Well hopefully you're not implying that's my take, because I don't think you should root for him to succeed at everything he does. I think you should focus on what you want to make in the world rather than how to hurt others. Even within the scope of companies to destroy, Twitter seems like an exceptionally poor target. Is Twitter really so much more threatening than Apple, Google, MS, FB, Tiktok, Tencent, any company marketing cigarettes etc, that it's worthy of setting aside all the productive things you can do with your life and make it your ambition to bring it down? The amount of negative energy focused at it is downright pathological given its size and impacts, IMO.
memish 4y ago
It's hard to build. It's easy to tear down. It's an unfortunate asymmetry.
- guelo 4y ago
  See for example, Elon buying Twitter and tearing everything down.
honkler 4y ago
yeah, I'm building the downfall of twitter
bergenty 4y ago
His agenda and what he’s enabling is incredibly mean spirited to large swaths of the population to the point where it observably increases violence against them. In contrast, my hope that his financial venture fails isn’t all that destructive.
- mlindner 4y ago
  I find it difficult to believe that "embracing the idea that what is legal should be legal on a platform designed for conveying speech" should be considered evil. Unless you believe that American law with regards to speech is also evil.
nebula8804 4y ago
The problem is that this is a unique case. If Twitter 2.0 succeeds, then it sends a signal to the capital class that they can proceed in buying up tech companies and gutting them to the bone. The power that Engineers have will be severely reduced and I suspect that avenue towards a respectable middle class life will be further eroded. Hell if Twitter only lasts a few more years, Elon has the potential of turning it around enough to sell it, getting the credit and the profit and letting someone else hold the bag. In this case its not a matter of mean spirited or not. This is a silent war going on and the other side could care less about being nice.
- Robotbeat 4y ago
  To be honest, I think maybe engineers' talents would be better spent on things other than optimizing ad placement and toxic engagement. So I'm fine either way... If Twitter 2.0 succeeds, then ad-reliant "tech" businesses will be gutted and engineers freed to do more constructive things... if it fails, then one of the most toxic websites--toxic even before Elon, of course--might go under. But I think that's wishful thinking.
  - nebula8804 4y ago
    I think it wont stop at ad-reliant tech companies. Twitter 2.0 succeeding will show that you can force Engineers to work in much harsher conditions for less pay and that will become the norm. They become the same as other blue collar roles. Just surviving and not thriving. I've often felt that was a motivating push behind "Learn to Code", bootcamps and other initiatives. Engineers have been blessed to have this unique power over the capital class. Its a once in a generation (or two) opportunity and that class is trying to find any way it can to wrestle back that power.
  - bergenty 4y ago
    It’s normalizing slavery pleb conditions for engineers.

ss2003 4y ago

Because there are many things that should just be torn down.

Larrikin 4y ago

It's a pretty easy argument that tearing Twitter down and reducing the wealth of the richest guy on paper is building a better world.

Robotbeat 4y ago
What's remarkable to me is people cheering desperately for Tesla to fail. Also weird that people were both cheering for Elon to be forced to buy Twitter, then mad that he bought it. Then cheering for Elon Twitter to fail (hoping for advertisers to leave even before any layoffs were announced) and then lambasting Elon for being so mean to lay off people (how can they stay employed if Twitter's revenue fails?). It's really weird.

macintux 4y ago

Arguably it’s better in the long term for civilization if narcissistic bullies don’t succeed.

kodyo 4y ago
There will always be government careers for those people to fall back on.
mlindner 4y ago
It's only in your opinion that is what he is. If you've actually been following him in detail for any length of time you'd realize that doesn't really describe him.
- macintux 4y ago
  “Pedo guy”: bully, even ignoring the borderline abusive behavior over the last few weeks. Narcissist? The fact that he’s nominally head of 3 companies, trying to execute a dramatic turnaround on one in real time, but still tweets constantly. Certainly, he has many positive attributes. But, quoting Steve Rogers, I don’t like bullies.
  - Robotbeat 4y ago
    The Pedo guy was one of the dumbest things Elon has done. But it's worth noting that the guy had used a sexually explicit insult against Elon on TV immediately before that. It didn't come out of nowhere. Elon stupidly went much further. Elon is mean to people who are mean to him and nice to people who are nice to him. That makes him kind of easy to manipulate. Neurotypicals (and those with higher social intelligence) know you're supposed to pretend to be nice to people who are mean to you.
    - mhss 4y ago
      I guess you can find excuses to defend anyone, including bullies. I mean, most bullies were bullied and abused themselves, so there's that. What's the excuse for the other points raised by the OP though? + a bunch of other stuff such as firing people and announcing it on Twitter over people disagreeing on Twitter with him? I find amusing all the mental gymnastics Musk followers are doing these days. It does seem like a personality cult. I used to look up to him, read one of his biographies, etc; Plenty to admire from his achievements, but his most recent toxic behaviour and shitty management style has really changed that.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
AlchemistCamp 4y ago
The problem with that goal, even if one were to assume your assessment of him is correct, is that you'd be advocating for the end of adoption of electric vehicles and keeping humanity a single planet species forever, thus increasing our existential risks. Since his success metric for launching Tesla was the success of green tech itself rather than Tesla's market share and his goals for SpaceX were similarly broad rather than purely financial, making a point of trying to make him fail is also negatively aligned with long term civilizational outcomes. It would take a very petty person to hope that we go back to throwing away rockets after a single use, just because they have a beef with the person in and inspired others to build a reusable one. If you feel that the 2018-2021 era version of Twitter was its ideal state, that's defensible even if a bit odd. But hoping a platform millions love fails, just because of the guy who bought it (and has a track record of doing great things for humanity), then your goal sucks.
- ryanwaggoner 4y ago
  It’s pretty bizarre take to think that just because Elon has done amazing things for humanity (which I’ll take at face value), that you should root for him to succeed at whatever he does, regardless of how destructive it is. I hope he fails hard at this and returns to making rockets. Tesla could disappear at this point and I don’t think it would matter, but SpaceX feels important still.
  - AlchemistCamp 4y ago
    Well hopefully you're not implying that's my take, because I don't think you should root for him to succeed at everything he does. I think you should focus on what you want to make in the world rather than how to hurt others. Even within the scope of companies to destroy, Twitter seems like an exceptionally poor target. Is Twitter really so much more threatening than Apple, Google, MS, FB, Tiktok, Tencent, any company marketing cigarettes etc, that it's worthy of setting aside all the productive things you can do with your life and make it your ambition to bring it down? The amount of negative energy focused at it is downright pathological given its size and impacts, IMO.

memish 4y ago

It's hard to build. It's easy to tear down. It's an unfortunate asymmetry.

guelo 4y ago
See for example, Elon buying Twitter and tearing everything down.

honkler 4y ago

yeah, I'm building the downfall of twitter

bergenty 4y ago

His agenda and what he’s enabling is incredibly mean spirited to large swaths of the population to the point where it observably increases violence against them. In contrast, my hope that his financial venture fails isn’t all that destructive.

mlindner 4y ago
I find it difficult to believe that "embracing the idea that what is legal should be legal on a platform designed for conveying speech" should be considered evil. Unless you believe that American law with regards to speech is also evil.

nebula8804 4y ago

The problem is that this is a unique case. If Twitter 2.0 succeeds, then it sends a signal to the capital class that they can proceed in buying up tech companies and gutting them to the bone. The power that Engineers have will be severely reduced and I suspect that avenue towards a respectable middle class life will be further eroded. Hell if Twitter only lasts a few more years, Elon has the potential of turning it around enough to sell it, getting the credit and the profit and letting someone else hold the bag. In this case its not a matter of mean spirited or not. This is a silent war going on and the other side could care less about being nice.

Robotbeat 4y ago
To be honest, I think maybe engineers' talents would be better spent on things other than optimizing ad placement and toxic engagement. So I'm fine either way... If Twitter 2.0 succeeds, then ad-reliant "tech" businesses will be gutted and engineers freed to do more constructive things... if it fails, then one of the most toxic websites--toxic even before Elon, of course--might go under. But I think that's wishful thinking.
- nebula8804 4y ago
  I think it wont stop at ad-reliant tech companies. Twitter 2.0 succeeding will show that you can force Engineers to work in much harsher conditions for less pay and that will become the norm. They become the same as other blue collar roles. Just surviving and not thriving. I've often felt that was a motivating push behind "Learn to Code", bootcamps and other initiatives. Engineers have been blessed to have this unique power over the capital class. Its a once in a generation (or two) opportunity and that class is trying to find any way it can to wrestle back that power.
- bergenty 4y ago
  It’s normalizing slavery pleb conditions for engineers.