5 ms·

Ask HN: What modern “legendary” programmer prefers IDE other than Vim or Emacs?

8 points by mattewong 4y ago

By "modern" I mean, started programming around a time when emacs, vim AND other (e.g. Visual Studio) were available to choose from

themodelplumber 4y ago
I remembered this Geany example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePZEkbbf3fc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePZEkbbf3fc Bio: > My name is Kamil Dębowski (or Errichto) and I'm quite good at competitive programming. I'm a finalist of multiple big programming competitions like ICPC, Facebook Hacker Cup and Google Code Jam (even got 2nd place in 2018). I also organize competitions, which means inventing and preparing problems. Not sure if they still use Geany, or if you consider this person legendary (some people really gatekeep around words like that), but there's at least a data point for you.
- mattewong 4y ago
  Had not seen that before thank you!
- yeputons 4y ago
  That's for competitive programming, you really want to stick with the most common tools there. Otherwise you have to learn different set of stuff for each on-site competition. Common as in "included in the standard OS image at competitions". For example, I use Far Manager/Kate for competitive programming and small scripts (sometimes Vim), but not way I use any of these for professional development.
  - themodelplumber 4y ago
    Trying to understand this--are Far Manager & Kate included in the standard OS image at competitions, but your favorite work IDE is not? Or is it more that your work config files & plugins are not available/needed in competitions?
    - yeputons 4y ago
      Yes. In some competitions about ten years ago in ex-USSR it was typically Windows + Far Manager (maybe some other stuff, but not always), in international competitions it was some flavor of Linux with a stock KDE (hence Kate) or GNOME (hence Gedit). No professional IDEs almost certainly (no license to use), and the set of free IDEs depends on what organizers like: some installed NetBeans, some installed Eclipse CDT, some did both, some did neither. No external resources like configs and plugins are typically allowed either. Of course, it depends on a competition. I'm mostly talking about IOI (International Olympiad in Informatics for school students) and ICPC (International Collegiate Programming Contest). Online competitions are another beast.
  - mattewong 4y ago
    interesting, had no idea of those limitations / considerations in competitive programming
smoldesu 4y ago
I dunno. Mark Zuckerberg?
- mattewong 4y ago
  From what I gather, Zuckerberg used emacs, so unless that information is wrong, then he would not be a responsive answer to this question. Thanks anyway
mattl 4y ago
So anyone programming in the last 25 years or so? 25 years ago I was using a mix of Visual Studio and Emacs. 25 years later I use Emacs a bit but don’t write much code. I use BBEdit more than Emacs now.
- mattewong 4y ago
  That's another one I hadn't seen before. thanks!
  - mattl 4y ago
    BBEdit is about the same age as vim both came out in 1992.
athielking 4y ago
I know John Carmack prefers an IDE. I believe he talks about it in this interview with Lex Fridman https://youtu.be/I845O57ZSy4 https://youtu.be/I845O57ZSy4
- mattewong 4y ago
  Great resource, thank you!
- karp773 4y ago
  Spoiler: He mentioned the old Visual Studio (not VS Code).
orf 4y ago
Honest question: what’s the point of this question? what does it matter? If “legendary programmers” all chiseled bits into a disk with a scalpel would that make it a good idea? Use whatever makes you comfortable and allow others to do the same. Don’t emulate or even care about “legendary programmers” tooling.
- karp773 4y ago
  Let me respectfully disagree. Tooling is super important in any trade but in programming it can make be multiplier (all other things being equal).
  - orf 4y ago
    It's like saying "What modern olympic gold medal runners prefer Adidas shoes over Nike?", with the implication that Adidas shoes are inferior in some way. They are olympians, you're not. Use whatever shoes you want to use. Tooling does matter, but what "legendary programmers" tooling looks like doesn't outside of a professional curiosity.
- ano88888 4y ago
  if you don't learn from the best, how do you improve?
  - nequo 4y ago
    Legendary programmers don’t become legendary because of their text editors but because of the code that they write. Linus Torvalds has used a janky version of micro Emacs that he picked up as a university student in Finland.[1] Will it make you a better programmer if you switch to his editor? No. Just use whatever you are comfortable with, like he has. He has used this editor because he got used to its peculiar keybindings. He rather worked on the kernel than to learn new keybindings. [1] https://github.com/torvalds/uemacs https://github.com/torvalds/uemacs
  - pjmlp 4y ago
    If IT would actually learn from the past it wouldn't be a fashion driven industry.
tails4e 4y ago
Andreas kling of serenityOS uses clion, and makes good use of its features. He's an awesome programmer, and no doubt proficient in vim if he needs to be, but seeing him interact with the IDE does shown its use, especially with the speed he operates at.
- mattewong 4y ago
  Thank you, had not heard of him and found some useful info in various places including: https://usesthis.com/interviews/andreas.kling/ https://usesthis.com/interviews/andreas.kling/
wilg 4y ago
emacs and vim people write code that is as confusing as their editors. change my view
- jasonjmcghee 4y ago
  Seems short-sighted to jump to conclusions about people's output based on the tools they use.
  - wilg 4y ago
    well, yes, true. but the design of your environment affects your design sensibilities
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

8 points by mattewong 4y ago

By "modern" I mean, started programming around a time when emacs, vim AND other (e.g. Visual Studio) were available to choose from

themodelplumber 4y ago

I remembered this Geany example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePZEkbbf3fc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePZEkbbf3fc Bio: > My name is Kamil Dębowski (or Errichto) and I'm quite good at competitive programming. I'm a finalist of multiple big programming competitions like ICPC, Facebook Hacker Cup and Google Code Jam (even got 2nd place in 2018). I also organize competitions, which means inventing and preparing problems. Not sure if they still use Geany, or if you consider this person legendary (some people really gatekeep around words like that), but there's at least a data point for you.

mattewong 4y ago
Had not seen that before thank you!
yeputons 4y ago
That's for competitive programming, you really want to stick with the most common tools there. Otherwise you have to learn different set of stuff for each on-site competition. Common as in "included in the standard OS image at competitions". For example, I use Far Manager/Kate for competitive programming and small scripts (sometimes Vim), but not way I use any of these for professional development.
- themodelplumber 4y ago
  Trying to understand this--are Far Manager & Kate included in the standard OS image at competitions, but your favorite work IDE is not? Or is it more that your work config files & plugins are not available/needed in competitions?
  - yeputons 4y ago
    Yes. In some competitions about ten years ago in ex-USSR it was typically Windows + Far Manager (maybe some other stuff, but not always), in international competitions it was some flavor of Linux with a stock KDE (hence Kate) or GNOME (hence Gedit). No professional IDEs almost certainly (no license to use), and the set of free IDEs depends on what organizers like: some installed NetBeans, some installed Eclipse CDT, some did both, some did neither. No external resources like configs and plugins are typically allowed either. Of course, it depends on a competition. I'm mostly talking about IOI (International Olympiad in Informatics for school students) and ICPC (International Collegiate Programming Contest). Online competitions are another beast.
- mattewong 4y ago
  interesting, had no idea of those limitations / considerations in competitive programming

smoldesu 4y ago

I dunno. Mark Zuckerberg?

mattewong 4y ago
From what I gather, Zuckerberg used emacs, so unless that information is wrong, then he would not be a responsive answer to this question. Thanks anyway

mattl 4y ago

So anyone programming in the last 25 years or so? 25 years ago I was using a mix of Visual Studio and Emacs. 25 years later I use Emacs a bit but don’t write much code. I use BBEdit more than Emacs now.

mattewong 4y ago
That's another one I hadn't seen before. thanks!
- mattl 4y ago
  BBEdit is about the same age as vim both came out in 1992.

athielking 4y ago

I know John Carmack prefers an IDE. I believe he talks about it in this interview with Lex Fridman https://youtu.be/I845O57ZSy4 https://youtu.be/I845O57ZSy4

mattewong 4y ago
Great resource, thank you!
karp773 4y ago
Spoiler: He mentioned the old Visual Studio (not VS Code).

orf 4y ago

Honest question: what’s the point of this question? what does it matter? If “legendary programmers” all chiseled bits into a disk with a scalpel would that make it a good idea? Use whatever makes you comfortable and allow others to do the same. Don’t emulate or even care about “legendary programmers” tooling.

karp773 4y ago
Let me respectfully disagree. Tooling is super important in any trade but in programming it can make be multiplier (all other things being equal).
- orf 4y ago
  It's like saying "What modern olympic gold medal runners prefer Adidas shoes over Nike?", with the implication that Adidas shoes are inferior in some way. They are olympians, you're not. Use whatever shoes you want to use. Tooling does matter, but what "legendary programmers" tooling looks like doesn't outside of a professional curiosity.
ano88888 4y ago
if you don't learn from the best, how do you improve?
- nequo 4y ago
  Legendary programmers don’t become legendary because of their text editors but because of the code that they write. Linus Torvalds has used a janky version of micro Emacs that he picked up as a university student in Finland.[1] Will it make you a better programmer if you switch to his editor? No. Just use whatever you are comfortable with, like he has. He has used this editor because he got used to its peculiar keybindings. He rather worked on the kernel than to learn new keybindings. [1] https://github.com/torvalds/uemacs https://github.com/torvalds/uemacs
- pjmlp 4y ago
  If IT would actually learn from the past it wouldn't be a fashion driven industry.

tails4e 4y ago

Andreas kling of serenityOS uses clion, and makes good use of its features. He's an awesome programmer, and no doubt proficient in vim if he needs to be, but seeing him interact with the IDE does shown its use, especially with the speed he operates at.

mattewong 4y ago
Thank you, had not heard of him and found some useful info in various places including: https://usesthis.com/interviews/andreas.kling/ https://usesthis.com/interviews/andreas.kling/

wilg 4y ago

emacs and vim people write code that is as confusing as their editors. change my view

jasonjmcghee 4y ago
Seems short-sighted to jump to conclusions about people's output based on the tools they use.
- wilg 4y ago
  well, yes, true. but the design of your environment affects your design sensibilities

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]