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Providing one of the best infrastructure and preparations the World cup has ever seen, spending 220 billion dollars to do it, and introducing the world cup to a

Providing one of the best infrastructure and preparations the World cup has ever seen, spending 220 billion dollars to do it, and introducing the world cup to a region that has been severely neglected historically, are all amazing achievements by Qatar. And doing all that while showing your traditions and identity is even better. Western governments claim to be the champions of Human rights, while Invading Iraq, Afghanistan and supporting the Apartheid occupation in Palestine. The human right problems in Qatar are peanuts compared to what the West (governments) did in the Middle East. Yet we don't go on a moaning spree every time the US hosts an event, or every time western politics get injected into sports. It's our time to host sport events we have always dreamed of, and it's our time to show our culture like you always did.

whateveracct 4y ago
You could protest anything about the USA in the USA without being arrested or incarcerated. If foreigners protest next WC, they will not be arrested. And there will not be a threat of arrest chilling their speech. There are actual differences here. Is restricted speech part of the "culture"? What about illegal homosexuality?
- jacooper 4y ago
  I agree, Freedom of speech needs to improve. Of course part of the problem is western governments supporting military coups. > Is restricted speech part of the "culture"? I mean I can't go joking around as a Nazi in Germany, yet that's not banned in the US. > What about illegal homosexuality? That is part of the culture. We and many others don't accept it, simple.
  - mola 4y ago
    Illegal homosexuality was part of western culture. Which we know meant untold numbers of hurt individuals. PPL would get beaten up, blackmailed turtured and generally had crappy life because of that "culture". We can't force "our" new culture on anyone, but we certainly don't need to pretetnd that we accept theirs. If you call apartheid to what's happening in Israel, than what do you call the treatment if minorities in all other Arab countries? Because in Israel non jews are in parliament, executive branch (ministers), in the judicial system (judges) in academia , Are graduating as doctors and lawyers , are journalists etc. If that's apartheid, than how on earth can you say that making homosexuality illegal is just a matter of culture? Being gay is a much more basic defining property than a nationality. And Israel doesn't even make calling yourself a Palestinian or raising the Palestinian flag illegal. You are delusional.
    - jacooper 4y ago
      > If you call apartheid to what's happening in Israel, than what do you call the treatment if minorities in all other Arab countries? Because in Israel non jews are in parliament, executive branch (ministers), in the judicial system (judges) in academia , Are graduating as doctors and lawyers , are journalists etc. This got to be a joke. Israel is an illegal occupation started by the British in 1917. They started the biggest open air prison in the world (Gaza), and actively demolished homes to build new illegal settlements. The same occupation that killed Shireen Abu Akleh, and tried to disrupt her funeral in every way possible. I will let the Amnesty report speak for itself https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apart... > than how on earth can you say that making homosexuality illegal is just a matter of culture? Because we don't accept it, simple. You changed your culture to accept it, we didn't and won't do it. > even make calling yourself a Palestinian or raising the Palestinian flag illegal. Ha ha ha, just stealing the land, removing the right of return and starting an open-air prison, nothing serious! /s. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/13/why-is-israel-afraid-of-the-palestinian-flag https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/13/why-is-israel-afrai...
      - sam_goody 4y ago
        You have probably been fed disinformation much more than being delusional, but it sounds the same ;) > Israel is an illegal occupation started by the British in 1917. If you don't consider the British taking the land from the Ottomans to be legal, than you will have to count turtles all the way down to Adam and Eve. If you think the treaty made between the Arabs and Jews was illegal, than you simply don't know history. The first land-for-peace treaty in the area gave the larger and (then) more desirable area of the TransJordan to the Arabs, and the smaller and less wanted pre-1948 area of Palestine to the Jews. It was overseen by the British, who were in control of the area, and de-facto relinquished that control by allowing the agreement. The Jews were never happy with the agreement, but it was forced upon them by the party legally in control. The Arabs, as with every other land for peace grab, immediately forgot the "peace" part, acted as though the half given was always theirs, and proceeded to attack and kill the Jews. (The Jews, being somewhat blind to fact, keep on falling for this trick. It took only a few weeks from when the Israelis left Gaza till rockets were being launched from the land they vacated, Hamas was openly saying that Gaza was always theirs, and that if they would just be given half of Jerusalem there would be peace! - Lucy would be proud.) > removing the right of return and starting an open-air prison, nothing serious! The "open air prison" you refer to is a) not a prison at all Tens of thousands of Arabs leave the "open air prison" you have been told of for work, leisure, and college on a daily basis. b) In the densest areas, Israel has tried to build better houses, has poured funds into attempts to improve the area. Hamas will not allow it, (it is in their interest for the people to feel oppressed), and the Israeli government cannot force the rebuilding of homes as it would cause International outrage at their involvement. The funds they sent are instead given to promote terrorist activities. c) Top notch healthcare is available for all Arabs, no matter where they live d) Any Arab that wants to travel abroad is invited to at any time. What "right-of-return" did they have that was removed from them? e) For some reason, there are Arabs from all the nearby countries (Syria, Jordan, etc) trying to get into Israel, even at risk of life. Any comparative look at the treatment that they get at home shows why. If you are ever in the area and are not afraid to be open minded, check it out. Any attempt to frame Israel as the bad guys might be politically expedient, and it may even be innocently from the garbage you have been fed, but it's factually entirely wrong.
  - the_cramer 4y ago
    >I mean I can't go joking around as a Nazi in Germany You can up to some point. Comedians do. People do. There are even Nazi marches in Germany. Although they represent a small fraction of the population and are not liked by others. But legally, you can be right if you deem so. Source:a German who doesn't like Nazis.
rhaway84773 4y ago
Lol, Welsh supporters were not allowed in with rainbow hats. And America, or really any country outside the Middle East, isn’t killing 1 stadium builder for every 60 mins of football to be played.
- profstasiak 4y ago
  muslim women are not allowed with burqa in France
  - jacooper 4y ago
    They are not allowed hijab now too.
    - JPLeRouzic 4y ago
      Citation? There are plenty of Muslim women with hijab in streets and workplaces in France. Source: I am French and living in France.
      - jacooper 4y ago
        https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/9/a-law-against-islam https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/9/a-law-against-islam Looks like for now, it's only for minors it's also banned in sports https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/19/french-senators-vote-to-ban-the-hijab-in-sports-competitions https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/19/french-senators-vot...
        ricardobeat 4y ago
        The difference is that France wants to forbid a symbol of oppression over women, while the middle east wants to forbid expressions of freedom. Take that as you will.
        jacooper 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
rantingdemon 4y ago
You must be a troll. To deny the blatant human rights (women...? Gay...?) in places like Qatar and go "but what about?" is ridiculous.
- jacooper 4y ago
  > You must be a troll. To deny the blatant human rights (women...? Gay...?) in places like Qatar First, talk to any of Qatari women, rather than targeted news reports that only appear when there is an event or a milestone in the Middle East. As for gays, you said they were human rights, we didn't and we and many other countries don't agree, very simple. > and go "but what about?" is ridiculous. There is no what about, the atrocities committed by western governments far outweigh whatever is happening in Qatar. Yet we don't see the US or UK get blasted because of the invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan and others every time they host a sport event. Which as I said, is a much bigger human right issue than what happening in Qatar.
  - 543g43g43 4y ago
    >talk to any of Qatari women It'll be hard to get their unbiased opinion with their male guardian permanently present.
    - jacooper 4y ago
      Can't deny that. And I am not very fond of the system of guardianship in some countries.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - sputr 4y ago
    Just a question as the answer will be interesting, troll or not: If you decided that "gays" have no human rights... Can the USA decide that Qataries don't have them either? And then "liberate" the oil from the nonhuman bipedal beings "wasting" it? This is a hypothetical, naturally.
benj111 4y ago
I didn't support the invasion of Iraq, nor do I support the Palestinian situation. Am I allowed to comment? Or not because I'm part of 'the west'?
- jacooper 4y ago
  My comment was more targeted towards Media and official bodies, should've made that more clear
  - benj111 4y ago
    But they are diverse groups who still aren't "Western governments". So you still can't tar them all with the same brush.
the_cramer 4y ago
Whataboutism. If you argue with a greater evil, nothing will ever be solved. Quatar did/does some nasty things and right now people have the possibility to boycott. Right now it's there and we will talk about it. All countries do nasty things all the time. But currently we're looking east.
- jacooper 4y ago
  More like Hypocrisy. Many of the nations who are crying foul of human rights issues in Qatar committed way bigger atrocities in recent history than Qatar ever did.
  - the_cramer 4y ago
    That doesn't make it more right. I think you did not understand my remark.
    - jacooper 4y ago
      My comment is about how human rights only get brought up in events in the Middle East, not when there is some event in the west, that is hypocrisy.
      - the_cramer 4y ago
        https://hn.algolia.com/?q=human+rights https://hn.algolia.com/?q=human+rights Well no not really. First few results are a mix of America, China and UAE...
        jacooper 4y ago
        HN is not mainstream media. Also UAE is a part of the middle east.
rcarr 4y ago
Glad to know that over 6000 people who died as a direct result of constructing stadiums is 'peanuts'. Yes, we have problems in the West, including modern slavery in certain industries. But last time I checked, we didn't use slaves to build the stadiums hosting our events nor did thousands of people die unnecessarily during construction. There is a very direct cause and effect correlation here that absolutely did not need to happen given the obvious wealth held in Qatar.
- snapcaster 4y ago
  Right, we don't kill 6000 people building stadiums. We instead send men with guns and bombs to kill many many many more people than that all throughout the globe

whateveracct 4y ago

You could protest anything about the USA in the USA without being arrested or incarcerated. If foreigners protest next WC, they will not be arrested. And there will not be a threat of arrest chilling their speech. There are actual differences here. Is restricted speech part of the "culture"? What about illegal homosexuality?

jacooper 4y ago
I agree, Freedom of speech needs to improve. Of course part of the problem is western governments supporting military coups. > Is restricted speech part of the "culture"? I mean I can't go joking around as a Nazi in Germany, yet that's not banned in the US. > What about illegal homosexuality? That is part of the culture. We and many others don't accept it, simple.
- mola 4y ago
  Illegal homosexuality was part of western culture. Which we know meant untold numbers of hurt individuals. PPL would get beaten up, blackmailed turtured and generally had crappy life because of that "culture". We can't force "our" new culture on anyone, but we certainly don't need to pretetnd that we accept theirs. If you call apartheid to what's happening in Israel, than what do you call the treatment if minorities in all other Arab countries? Because in Israel non jews are in parliament, executive branch (ministers), in the judicial system (judges) in academia , Are graduating as doctors and lawyers , are journalists etc. If that's apartheid, than how on earth can you say that making homosexuality illegal is just a matter of culture? Being gay is a much more basic defining property than a nationality. And Israel doesn't even make calling yourself a Palestinian or raising the Palestinian flag illegal. You are delusional.
  - jacooper 4y ago
    > If you call apartheid to what's happening in Israel, than what do you call the treatment if minorities in all other Arab countries? Because in Israel non jews are in parliament, executive branch (ministers), in the judicial system (judges) in academia , Are graduating as doctors and lawyers , are journalists etc. This got to be a joke. Israel is an illegal occupation started by the British in 1917. They started the biggest open air prison in the world (Gaza), and actively demolished homes to build new illegal settlements. The same occupation that killed Shireen Abu Akleh, and tried to disrupt her funeral in every way possible. I will let the Amnesty report speak for itself https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apart... > than how on earth can you say that making homosexuality illegal is just a matter of culture? Because we don't accept it, simple. You changed your culture to accept it, we didn't and won't do it. > even make calling yourself a Palestinian or raising the Palestinian flag illegal. Ha ha ha, just stealing the land, removing the right of return and starting an open-air prison, nothing serious! /s. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/13/why-is-israel-afraid-of-the-palestinian-flag https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/13/why-is-israel-afrai...
    - sam_goody 4y ago
      You have probably been fed disinformation much more than being delusional, but it sounds the same ;) > Israel is an illegal occupation started by the British in 1917. If you don't consider the British taking the land from the Ottomans to be legal, than you will have to count turtles all the way down to Adam and Eve. If you think the treaty made between the Arabs and Jews was illegal, than you simply don't know history. The first land-for-peace treaty in the area gave the larger and (then) more desirable area of the TransJordan to the Arabs, and the smaller and less wanted pre-1948 area of Palestine to the Jews. It was overseen by the British, who were in control of the area, and de-facto relinquished that control by allowing the agreement. The Jews were never happy with the agreement, but it was forced upon them by the party legally in control. The Arabs, as with every other land for peace grab, immediately forgot the "peace" part, acted as though the half given was always theirs, and proceeded to attack and kill the Jews. (The Jews, being somewhat blind to fact, keep on falling for this trick. It took only a few weeks from when the Israelis left Gaza till rockets were being launched from the land they vacated, Hamas was openly saying that Gaza was always theirs, and that if they would just be given half of Jerusalem there would be peace! - Lucy would be proud.) > removing the right of return and starting an open-air prison, nothing serious! The "open air prison" you refer to is a) not a prison at all Tens of thousands of Arabs leave the "open air prison" you have been told of for work, leisure, and college on a daily basis. b) In the densest areas, Israel has tried to build better houses, has poured funds into attempts to improve the area. Hamas will not allow it, (it is in their interest for the people to feel oppressed), and the Israeli government cannot force the rebuilding of homes as it would cause International outrage at their involvement. The funds they sent are instead given to promote terrorist activities. c) Top notch healthcare is available for all Arabs, no matter where they live d) Any Arab that wants to travel abroad is invited to at any time. What "right-of-return" did they have that was removed from them? e) For some reason, there are Arabs from all the nearby countries (Syria, Jordan, etc) trying to get into Israel, even at risk of life. Any comparative look at the treatment that they get at home shows why. If you are ever in the area and are not afraid to be open minded, check it out. Any attempt to frame Israel as the bad guys might be politically expedient, and it may even be innocently from the garbage you have been fed, but it's factually entirely wrong.
- the_cramer 4y ago
  >I mean I can't go joking around as a Nazi in Germany You can up to some point. Comedians do. People do. There are even Nazi marches in Germany. Although they represent a small fraction of the population and are not liked by others. But legally, you can be right if you deem so. Source:a German who doesn't like Nazis.

rhaway84773 4y ago

Lol, Welsh supporters were not allowed in with rainbow hats. And America, or really any country outside the Middle East, isn’t killing 1 stadium builder for every 60 mins of football to be played.

profstasiak 4y ago
muslim women are not allowed with burqa in France
- jacooper 4y ago
  They are not allowed hijab now too.
  - JPLeRouzic 4y ago
    Citation? There are plenty of Muslim women with hijab in streets and workplaces in France. Source: I am French and living in France.
    - jacooper 4y ago
      https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/9/a-law-against-islam https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/9/a-law-against-islam Looks like for now, it's only for minors it's also banned in sports https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/19/french-senators-vote-to-ban-the-hijab-in-sports-competitions https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/1/19/french-senators-vot...
      - ricardobeat 4y ago
        The difference is that France wants to forbid a symbol of oppression over women, while the middle east wants to forbid expressions of freedom. Take that as you will.
        jacooper 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

rantingdemon 4y ago

You must be a troll. To deny the blatant human rights (women...? Gay...?) in places like Qatar and go "but what about?" is ridiculous.

jacooper 4y ago
> You must be a troll. To deny the blatant human rights (women...? Gay...?) in places like Qatar First, talk to any of Qatari women, rather than targeted news reports that only appear when there is an event or a milestone in the Middle East. As for gays, you said they were human rights, we didn't and we and many other countries don't agree, very simple. > and go "but what about?" is ridiculous. There is no what about, the atrocities committed by western governments far outweigh whatever is happening in Qatar. Yet we don't see the US or UK get blasted because of the invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan and others every time they host a sport event. Which as I said, is a much bigger human right issue than what happening in Qatar.
- 543g43g43 4y ago
  >talk to any of Qatari women It'll be hard to get their unbiased opinion with their male guardian permanently present.
  - jacooper 4y ago
    Can't deny that. And I am not very fond of the system of guardianship in some countries.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- sputr 4y ago
  Just a question as the answer will be interesting, troll or not: If you decided that "gays" have no human rights... Can the USA decide that Qataries don't have them either? And then "liberate" the oil from the nonhuman bipedal beings "wasting" it? This is a hypothetical, naturally.

benj111 4y ago

I didn't support the invasion of Iraq, nor do I support the Palestinian situation. Am I allowed to comment? Or not because I'm part of 'the west'?

jacooper 4y ago
My comment was more targeted towards Media and official bodies, should've made that more clear
- benj111 4y ago
  But they are diverse groups who still aren't "Western governments". So you still can't tar them all with the same brush.

the_cramer 4y ago

Whataboutism. If you argue with a greater evil, nothing will ever be solved. Quatar did/does some nasty things and right now people have the possibility to boycott. Right now it's there and we will talk about it. All countries do nasty things all the time. But currently we're looking east.

jacooper 4y ago
More like Hypocrisy. Many of the nations who are crying foul of human rights issues in Qatar committed way bigger atrocities in recent history than Qatar ever did.
- the_cramer 4y ago
  That doesn't make it more right. I think you did not understand my remark.
  - jacooper 4y ago
    My comment is about how human rights only get brought up in events in the Middle East, not when there is some event in the west, that is hypocrisy.
    - the_cramer 4y ago
      https://hn.algolia.com/?q=human+rights https://hn.algolia.com/?q=human+rights Well no not really. First few results are a mix of America, China and UAE...
      - jacooper 4y ago
        HN is not mainstream media. Also UAE is a part of the middle east.

rcarr 4y ago

Glad to know that over 6000 people who died as a direct result of constructing stadiums is 'peanuts'. Yes, we have problems in the West, including modern slavery in certain industries. But last time I checked, we didn't use slaves to build the stadiums hosting our events nor did thousands of people die unnecessarily during construction. There is a very direct cause and effect correlation here that absolutely did not need to happen given the obvious wealth held in Qatar.

snapcaster 4y ago
Right, we don't kill 6000 people building stadiums. We instead send men with guns and bombs to kill many many many more people than that all throughout the globe