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Paraphrasing this week's TWiT: Web 1.0 and 2.0 were created by engineers to solve problems. Web 3/3.0 was invented by finance bros to disguise their various sc

Paraphrasing this week's TWiT: Web 1.0 and 2.0 were created by engineers to solve problems. Web 3/3.0 was invented by finance bros to disguise their various scams as the next technology revolution.

Renaud 4y ago
>Web 3/3.0 was invented by finance bros Web3, not Web 3.0, not the same thing at all, the latter is the next incarnation of Tim Berners-Lee's vision for the web and has nothing to do with finance and crypto bros. It's important to make the distinction because 3.0 is actually important.
- itslennysfault 4y ago
  Honestly...... 3.0 is actually dead on arrival thanks to the proliferation of "Web3" the brand damage is done and "3.0" should find a new name ASAP.
  - mkl95 4y ago
    Imo Web 3.0 is Webtransport / Webassembly / WebGPU. But Web 2.0+ may be a more fitting name.
    - rhn_mk1 4y ago
      I was thinking that web 3 would be fitting for ActivityPub, WebTorrent, Namecoin and IPFS.
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        No? ActivityPub is a protocol over HTTP - that's solidly last-gen. IPFS is caught between iterations but IMO is solidly Web2, and WebTorrent/Namecoin are abstractions over pre-existing technology. I think that's appropriate for a Web2.1 starter-pack, maybe.
        rhn_mk1 4y ago
        What's next-gen is the federation, as opposed to the centralization of the current-gen. HTTP has nothing to do with it, even the "semantic 3.0" didn't ditch it.
        smoldesu 4y ago
        That's not next-gen. Federation has existed since the 90s in the form of P2P trackers and other networking paradigms. HTTP has everything to do with it because Mastodon is built on a client-server model (not a peer-to-peer one) which is the textbook definition of a Web2 network.
        rhn_mk1 4y ago
        When web 2.0 entered the picture, it didn't bring in anything new either, but represented a different focus. I think my proposal makes sense as "3.0" because similarly, there's not much new except a new focus in it.
    - angry_moose 4y ago
      Wikipedia uses Semantic Web: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web They really don't even distinguish between Web3/3.0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web3
- linuxdude314 4y ago
  Not very many people make this distinction… As far as optics and media perception (which is unfortunately what matters for the cultural zeitgeist) most understand Web3 to be the next generation incarnation of the web.
linuxdude314 4y ago
That’s cynical at best. One of the goals of Web3 is to enable direct commerce without trusted intermediaries. Anyone here like using PayPal? What if instead you had the equivalent of cash that you could use on the internet? Web3 is attempting to create an economy decoupled from existing currencies (fiat). Unlike a country seigniorage determined ahead of time, and is publicly visible for all to see. If the idea of creating an internet native economy with its own currency and financial tools is not intellectually stimulating to you, then look elsewhere instead of completely hating on the space. Yes there are scams; no that is not why the tech was created.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > One of the goals of Web3 is to enable direct commerce without trusted intermediaries That's the sales pitch, but the implementations all require basically anonymous, unaccountable intermediaries that are trusted.
  - linuxdude314 4y ago
    So let’s just stop trying all together then, since things haven’t worked out well so far. That is in effect what your statement is implying. I’ll preface this by stating: running financial experiments on retail investors is immoral and likely criminal. That being said, how many failures did Goddard have before his first successful liquid rocket? A lot! He was ridiculed in newspapers, touted as crazy, and seen as a failure by a broad community. If you’re interested, pay a visit to NASA’s Goddard Space and Flight center (named after the father of modern rocketry). Why should failures of the past (most of which were human folly or greed) inhibit us from innovating our way to the future?
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > So let’s just stop trying all together then, since things haven’t worked out well so far. Crypto isn’t actually trying; the intermediaries that need to be trusted are fundamental to the concept, despite the sales pitch. If you want to direct commerce without trusted intermediaries, just do that, it’s called barter and it works in certain circumstances. The “problem” crypto pretends to solve is that turning that in to monetary exchange that is, replacing at least one part of that direct exchange with a fungible token traded not for its own direct utility but instead optimized for use in exchange with third parties for other goods and services, makes it suddenly rely on trusting external actors and social systems, but that isn’t a solvable problem, it is unalterably inherent in the very concept of monetary exchange. All any system can do is obscure that, reducing the probability that the trust extended is warranted.

Paraphrasing this week's TWiT: Web 1.0 and 2.0 were created by engineers to solve problems. Web 3/3.0 was invented by finance bros to disguise their various scams as the next technology revolution.

Renaud 4y ago

>Web 3/3.0 was invented by finance bros Web3, not Web 3.0, not the same thing at all, the latter is the next incarnation of Tim Berners-Lee's vision for the web and has nothing to do with finance and crypto bros. It's important to make the distinction because 3.0 is actually important.

itslennysfault 4y ago
Honestly...... 3.0 is actually dead on arrival thanks to the proliferation of "Web3" the brand damage is done and "3.0" should find a new name ASAP.
- mkl95 4y ago
  Imo Web 3.0 is Webtransport / Webassembly / WebGPU. But Web 2.0+ may be a more fitting name.
  - rhn_mk1 4y ago
    I was thinking that web 3 would be fitting for ActivityPub, WebTorrent, Namecoin and IPFS.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      No? ActivityPub is a protocol over HTTP - that's solidly last-gen. IPFS is caught between iterations but IMO is solidly Web2, and WebTorrent/Namecoin are abstractions over pre-existing technology. I think that's appropriate for a Web2.1 starter-pack, maybe.
      - rhn_mk1 4y ago
        What's next-gen is the federation, as opposed to the centralization of the current-gen. HTTP has nothing to do with it, even the "semantic 3.0" didn't ditch it.
        smoldesu 4y ago
        That's not next-gen. Federation has existed since the 90s in the form of P2P trackers and other networking paradigms. HTTP has everything to do with it because Mastodon is built on a client-server model (not a peer-to-peer one) which is the textbook definition of a Web2 network.
        rhn_mk1 4y ago
        When web 2.0 entered the picture, it didn't bring in anything new either, but represented a different focus. I think my proposal makes sense as "3.0" because similarly, there's not much new except a new focus in it.
  - angry_moose 4y ago
    Wikipedia uses Semantic Web: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_Web They really don't even distinguish between Web3/3.0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web3
linuxdude314 4y ago
Not very many people make this distinction… As far as optics and media perception (which is unfortunately what matters for the cultural zeitgeist) most understand Web3 to be the next generation incarnation of the web.

linuxdude314 4y ago

That’s cynical at best. One of the goals of Web3 is to enable direct commerce without trusted intermediaries. Anyone here like using PayPal? What if instead you had the equivalent of cash that you could use on the internet? Web3 is attempting to create an economy decoupled from existing currencies (fiat). Unlike a country seigniorage determined ahead of time, and is publicly visible for all to see. If the idea of creating an internet native economy with its own currency and financial tools is not intellectually stimulating to you, then look elsewhere instead of completely hating on the space. Yes there are scams; no that is not why the tech was created.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> One of the goals of Web3 is to enable direct commerce without trusted intermediaries That's the sales pitch, but the implementations all require basically anonymous, unaccountable intermediaries that are trusted.
- linuxdude314 4y ago
  So let’s just stop trying all together then, since things haven’t worked out well so far. That is in effect what your statement is implying. I’ll preface this by stating: running financial experiments on retail investors is immoral and likely criminal. That being said, how many failures did Goddard have before his first successful liquid rocket? A lot! He was ridiculed in newspapers, touted as crazy, and seen as a failure by a broad community. If you’re interested, pay a visit to NASA’s Goddard Space and Flight center (named after the father of modern rocketry). Why should failures of the past (most of which were human folly or greed) inhibit us from innovating our way to the future?
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > So let’s just stop trying all together then, since things haven’t worked out well so far. Crypto isn’t actually trying; the intermediaries that need to be trusted are fundamental to the concept, despite the sales pitch. If you want to direct commerce without trusted intermediaries, just do that, it’s called barter and it works in certain circumstances. The “problem” crypto pretends to solve is that turning that in to monetary exchange that is, replacing at least one part of that direct exchange with a fungible token traded not for its own direct utility but instead optimized for use in exchange with third parties for other goods and services, makes it suddenly rely on trusting external actors and social systems, but that isn’t a solvable problem, it is unalterably inherent in the very concept of monetary exchange. All any system can do is obscure that, reducing the probability that the trust extended is warranted.