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> these particular generators can be replaced with renewables and batteries trivially Renewables and batteries can be added trivially. I don't see how that mea

> these particular generators can be replaced with renewables and batteries trivially Renewables and batteries can be added trivially. I don't see how that means the dams should be torn down.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
Because they’re detrimental to the biome in this case. Every evaluation will be different, each with nuance. EDIT: I think, importantly, that these decisions should require the replacement of generation capacity lost with clean generation and storage as part of the cost benefit analysis.
- bobthepanda 4y ago
  That may not even be necessary. This demolition happened in Oregon. Despite a growing population and increasingly hot summers, Oregon’s electricity use peaked in 2000. https://www.oregon.gov/energy/energy-oregon/Pages/How-Oregon-Uses-Energy.aspx https://www.oregon.gov/energy/energy-oregon/Pages/How-Oregon... US energy demand has been plateauing for a while as well: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=38572 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=38572
  - Retric 4y ago
    EV’s are likely to offset that long term trend. However, electricity is very low on the utility provided by dams. Reducing flooding and stabilizing the water supply tend to be vastly more valuable in most areas.
    - londons_explore 4y ago
      EV's and heat pumps for building heating. Both are 'the future', and both will rather dramatically increase power grid demand. Luckily, I think 'smart' pricing and demand scheduling will mean that the infrastructure changes will be minimal and gradual despite the massively increased demand - there won't be rolling blackouts or emergencies anytime soon.
      - bobthepanda 4y ago
        At least in WA (OR may be different but as PNW neighbors we are often pretty similar) a lot of heating locally is electric resistance, so heat pumps would actually represent a net decrease in energy use.
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  > Because they’re detrimental to the biome in this case That's a good reason. My point is/was that that is unrelated to renewables and batteries.
pencilguin 4y ago
The value extracted from the dams was never more than a tiny fraction of just the commercial value of the fishery each eliminated, wholly leaving aside the matter of causing extinctions. California's system with dams near peaks of the Sierra Nevada range, feeding penstocks to thousands of meters below, is both massively more efficient and causes nowhere near the ecological damage of the river valley dams being torn down. Those were largely built in the 1920s with pulley-operated (pre-hydraulics) equipment trailered up on abysmally bad roads... that still exist, unimproved.

> these particular generators can be replaced with renewables and batteries trivially Renewables and batteries can be added trivially. I don't see how that means the dams should be torn down.

toomuchtodo 4y ago

Because they’re detrimental to the biome in this case. Every evaluation will be different, each with nuance. EDIT: I think, importantly, that these decisions should require the replacement of generation capacity lost with clean generation and storage as part of the cost benefit analysis.

bobthepanda 4y ago
That may not even be necessary. This demolition happened in Oregon. Despite a growing population and increasingly hot summers, Oregon’s electricity use peaked in 2000. https://www.oregon.gov/energy/energy-oregon/Pages/How-Oregon-Uses-Energy.aspx https://www.oregon.gov/energy/energy-oregon/Pages/How-Oregon... US energy demand has been plateauing for a while as well: https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=38572 https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=38572
- Retric 4y ago
  EV’s are likely to offset that long term trend. However, electricity is very low on the utility provided by dams. Reducing flooding and stabilizing the water supply tend to be vastly more valuable in most areas.
  - londons_explore 4y ago
    EV's and heat pumps for building heating. Both are 'the future', and both will rather dramatically increase power grid demand. Luckily, I think 'smart' pricing and demand scheduling will mean that the infrastructure changes will be minimal and gradual despite the massively increased demand - there won't be rolling blackouts or emergencies anytime soon.
    - bobthepanda 4y ago
      At least in WA (OR may be different but as PNW neighbors we are often pretty similar) a lot of heating locally is electric resistance, so heat pumps would actually represent a net decrease in energy use.
BurningFrog 4y ago
> Because they’re detrimental to the biome in this case That's a good reason. My point is/was that that is unrelated to renewables and batteries.

pencilguin 4y ago

The value extracted from the dams was never more than a tiny fraction of just the commercial value of the fishery each eliminated, wholly leaving aside the matter of causing extinctions. California's system with dams near peaks of the Sierra Nevada range, feeding penstocks to thousands of meters below, is both massively more efficient and causes nowhere near the ecological damage of the river valley dams being torn down. Those were largely built in the 1920s with pulley-operated (pre-hydraulics) equipment trailered up on abysmally bad roads... that still exist, unimproved.