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Matt did call it a Ponzi scheme in so many words: > I think of myself as like a fairly cynical person, and that was so much more cynical than how I would have

by bambax 4y ago

Matt did call it a Ponzi scheme in so many words: > I think of myself as like a fairly cynical person, and that was so much more cynical than how I would have described farming. Like, you're just like "well, I'm in the Ponzi business, and it's pretty good!" You can listen to it right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZYqL79GDXU&t=1633s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZYqL79GDXU&t=1633s

graeme 4y ago
He was referring to SBF’s description of Defi. SBF wasn’t describing FTX in that quote
aetherson 4y ago
Levine himself says that SBF wasn't calling FTX or Alameda ponzi schemes, but rather was saying that some of the coins traded on FTX were ponzis, and that he left that interview feeling impressed with SBF's savvy. Specifically, Levine's words: People on Twitter now are like “he admitted that FTX is a Ponzi!” but of course that’s not true. He conceded a certain validity to my claim that some crypto businesses — not his — are Ponzis. He is just in the business of trading their tokens. In fact, I came away from that conversation bullish on FTX and Bankman-Fried. Reference: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-11-10/ftx-is-still-looking-for-money https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-11-10/ftx-is... (paywalled)
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
  > Levine himself says that SBF wasn't calling FTX or Alameda ponzi schemes, but rather was saying that some of the coins traded on FTX were ponzis Hmm, well. When the ponzi schemes inevitably collapse, then so does the trade in them, right?
  - aetherson 4y ago
    Lots of exchanges have survived lots of failures of individual assets traded on those exchanges.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
      Lots of exchanges aren't cryptocurrency-only exchanges.
      - aetherson 4y ago
        This all seems very counterfactual and vibes based. To be clear about this conversation, someone claims that Levine "called SBF out on running a Ponzi scheme." I provide a clear quote from Levine disavowing that. You come in and say that well, maybe FTX was unsound in a way that is actually different from what actually went wrong with FTX/Alameda. Is there any content to your contribution here? Or is it all just vibes?
        SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        I'm not disputing that Mr Levine's take was that SBF and co were "in the Ponzi (trading) business" rather than running a Ponzi themselves. I am just just pointing out that while this is not as rapidly or completely unstable as running one of the traded Ponzis, it is also not fundamentally stable and sustainable. IDK what "vibes" have to do with that, if anything. These are fundamentals that eventually bring down temporarily bubbles. If that's what you mean by "vibes", it's the opposite.
stingraycharles 4y ago
This is exactly the quote I had in mind, yes. Thank you for looking it up.

by bambax 4y ago

graeme 4y ago

He was referring to SBF’s description of Defi. SBF wasn’t describing FTX in that quote

aetherson 4y ago

Levine himself says that SBF wasn't calling FTX or Alameda ponzi schemes, but rather was saying that some of the coins traded on FTX were ponzis, and that he left that interview feeling impressed with SBF's savvy. Specifically, Levine's words: People on Twitter now are like “he admitted that FTX is a Ponzi!” but of course that’s not true. He conceded a certain validity to my claim that some crypto businesses — not his — are Ponzis. He is just in the business of trading their tokens. In fact, I came away from that conversation bullish on FTX and Bankman-Fried. Reference: https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-11-10/ftx-is-still-looking-for-money https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2022-11-10/ftx-is... (paywalled)

SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
> Levine himself says that SBF wasn't calling FTX or Alameda ponzi schemes, but rather was saying that some of the coins traded on FTX were ponzis Hmm, well. When the ponzi schemes inevitably collapse, then so does the trade in them, right?
- aetherson 4y ago
  Lots of exchanges have survived lots of failures of individual assets traded on those exchanges.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    Lots of exchanges aren't cryptocurrency-only exchanges.
    - aetherson 4y ago
      This all seems very counterfactual and vibes based. To be clear about this conversation, someone claims that Levine "called SBF out on running a Ponzi scheme." I provide a clear quote from Levine disavowing that. You come in and say that well, maybe FTX was unsound in a way that is actually different from what actually went wrong with FTX/Alameda. Is there any content to your contribution here? Or is it all just vibes?
      - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        I'm not disputing that Mr Levine's take was that SBF and co were "in the Ponzi (trading) business" rather than running a Ponzi themselves. I am just just pointing out that while this is not as rapidly or completely unstable as running one of the traded Ponzis, it is also not fundamentally stable and sustainable. IDK what "vibes" have to do with that, if anything. These are fundamentals that eventually bring down temporarily bubbles. If that's what you mean by "vibes", it's the opposite.

stingraycharles 4y ago

This is exactly the quote I had in mind, yes. Thank you for looking it up.