4 ms·

At a first glance it looks nice (the number of default processes reminds me of XP days...), but as always with this kind of project... is this legal, or will th

by ale42 4y ago

At a first glance it looks nice (the number of default processes reminds me of XP days...), but as always with this kind of project... is this legal, or will they get a DMCA complaint soon or later?

Someone 4y ago
https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas: Disclaimer By downloading, modifying, or utilizing any of these images, you agree to Microsoft's Terms (<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/U...>). None of these images are pre-activated, you must use a genuine key. ⇒ it may avoid legal issues, but I wouldn’t guarantee that (are third parties allowed to even distribute the unmodified Windows ISO?
- leeter 4y ago
  I seem to recall someone else getting in trouble for distributing Windows ISOs in the past. MS tends to get very touchy on that ostensibly for security reasons (which I actually get). They seem tend to look askance at scripts that strip down the OS but don't seem to otherwise care other than to tell people they won't get support while using said things.
  - JPLeRouzic 4y ago
    In the past many people were distributing binaries from Windows without Microsoft being very touchy. You can check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BartPE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BartPE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLite_and_vLite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLite_and_vLite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinBuilder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinBuilder You can also find customized failed build of Windows like Neptune, Chicago, Whistler, Longhorn etc. ISOs. One example: https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44187 https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44187 I guess Microsoft thinks that ultimately, it gets people acquainted with Windows and even loving it.
    - nunobrito 4y ago
      Hello, I'm the developer of Winbuilder. Those builder projects exist specifically because they avoid distribuing ANY Microsoft binaries. You have to provide the installation files or ISO. The files are then extracted from there and used for building a new image. That is the reason why these hobby and sysadmin projects were able to exist for so long without legal issues from Microsoft. Distributing ISO images with Microsoft files like beta archive and now AtlasOS goes against the EULA conditions (assuming they are valid in your host country).
      - JPLeRouzic 4y ago
        Hello, I admire your various works and contributions,
        nunobrito 4y ago
        Merci!
  - trynewideas 4y ago
    Might be thinking of Ninjutsu OS, which got a DMCA takedown in 2020 for distributing modified Windows installation ISOs "that heavily modify Windows 10 with a huge number of tweaks, mods and extra tools" for pentesting: https://torrentfreak.com/removing-annoying-windows-10-features-is-a-dmca-violation-microsoft-says-200611/ https://torrentfreak.com/removing-annoying-windows-10-featur... Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23486887 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23486887 Complaint text: https://github.com/github/dmca/commit/e6911fbf79c67c6f9e834cb4bc7cdc10679318e7 https://github.com/github/dmca/commit/e6911fbf79c67c6f9e834c...
    - leeter 4y ago
      I think I saw that one; but the one that comes to mind is also: https://www.techdirt.com/2018/04/27/how-microsoft-convinced-clueless-judges-to-send-man-to-jail-copying-software-it-gives-out-free/ https://www.techdirt.com/2018/04/27/how-microsoft-convinced-...
newswasboring 4y ago
I am not a member of the team or anything. I found this on tiktok. But it is open source so I checked the github repo. They do not distribute a pre-activated image, all images need to be activated using a windows key. So in that sense all they are really distributing is a configuration of windows, that is also mostly what their github repo[1] is. But I see the issue there too as I don't think even sharing unactivated windows is allowed. But worst comes to worst, they can prepare instructions on how to install their stuff with an image downloaded from microsoft website. They are not writing a new windows, its more like they are figuring out what bloat is there in windows and removing it. Edit: They actually already have instructions on how to use their scripts with a windows image downloaded from microsoft website [2] [1] https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas [2] https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/main/src/README.md https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/main/src/README.md
- trynewideas 4y ago
  There's a breakdown on the legality of redistributing modified Windows ISOs by NTLite staff on their forum.[1] The Atlas team uses NTLite. Relevant bits: > You're permitted to only use official images provided by MSFT or authorized partners (VAR or reseller). You're not permitted to use a random image found on the Internet to start your customization (even with a valid license key). > You're not permitted to share copies of the original media, or any customized images you make. You can deploy images on behalf of another party who already owns a correct license for their own internal use. > Bottom line: You're allowed to modify a clean image if you own a license. You can't redistribute it, but you can share NTLite presets, scripts or instructions that allow other licensed users to perform the same work. Everyone must have their own OEM, retail or volume licenses. EDIT: They appear to be claiming "educational use"/EU 2009/24 protection, which, well. Good luck.[2] [1]: https://www.ntlite.com/community/index.php?threads/is-it-legal-modifying-windows-with-ntlite.2402/#post-20130 https://www.ntlite.com/community/index.php?threads/is-it-leg... [2]: https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/wiki/Legal https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/wiki/Legal

by ale42 4y ago

At a first glance it looks nice (the number of default processes reminds me of XP days...), but as always with this kind of project... is this legal, or will they get a DMCA complaint soon or later?

Someone 4y ago

https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas: Disclaimer By downloading, modifying, or utilizing any of these images, you agree to Microsoft's Terms (<https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/UseTerms_Retail_Windows_10_English.htm https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterms/Retail/Windows/10/U...>). None of these images are pre-activated, you must use a genuine key. ⇒ it may avoid legal issues, but I wouldn’t guarantee that (are third parties allowed to even distribute the unmodified Windows ISO?

leeter 4y ago
I seem to recall someone else getting in trouble for distributing Windows ISOs in the past. MS tends to get very touchy on that ostensibly for security reasons (which I actually get). They seem tend to look askance at scripts that strip down the OS but don't seem to otherwise care other than to tell people they won't get support while using said things.
- JPLeRouzic 4y ago
  In the past many people were distributing binaries from Windows without Microsoft being very touchy. You can check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BartPE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BartPE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLite_and_vLite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLite_and_vLite https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinBuilder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinBuilder You can also find customized failed build of Windows like Neptune, Chicago, Whistler, Longhorn etc. ISOs. One example: https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44187 https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44187 I guess Microsoft thinks that ultimately, it gets people acquainted with Windows and even loving it.
  - nunobrito 4y ago
    Hello, I'm the developer of Winbuilder. Those builder projects exist specifically because they avoid distribuing ANY Microsoft binaries. You have to provide the installation files or ISO. The files are then extracted from there and used for building a new image. That is the reason why these hobby and sysadmin projects were able to exist for so long without legal issues from Microsoft. Distributing ISO images with Microsoft files like beta archive and now AtlasOS goes against the EULA conditions (assuming they are valid in your host country).
    - JPLeRouzic 4y ago
      Hello, I admire your various works and contributions,
      - nunobrito 4y ago
        Merci!
- trynewideas 4y ago
  Might be thinking of Ninjutsu OS, which got a DMCA takedown in 2020 for distributing modified Windows installation ISOs "that heavily modify Windows 10 with a huge number of tweaks, mods and extra tools" for pentesting: https://torrentfreak.com/removing-annoying-windows-10-features-is-a-dmca-violation-microsoft-says-200611/ https://torrentfreak.com/removing-annoying-windows-10-featur... Discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23486887 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23486887 Complaint text: https://github.com/github/dmca/commit/e6911fbf79c67c6f9e834cb4bc7cdc10679318e7 https://github.com/github/dmca/commit/e6911fbf79c67c6f9e834c...
  - leeter 4y ago
    I think I saw that one; but the one that comes to mind is also: https://www.techdirt.com/2018/04/27/how-microsoft-convinced-clueless-judges-to-send-man-to-jail-copying-software-it-gives-out-free/ https://www.techdirt.com/2018/04/27/how-microsoft-convinced-...

newswasboring 4y ago

I am not a member of the team or anything. I found this on tiktok. But it is open source so I checked the github repo. They do not distribute a pre-activated image, all images need to be activated using a windows key. So in that sense all they are really distributing is a configuration of windows, that is also mostly what their github repo[1] is. But I see the issue there too as I don't think even sharing unactivated windows is allowed. But worst comes to worst, they can prepare instructions on how to install their stuff with an image downloaded from microsoft website. They are not writing a new windows, its more like they are figuring out what bloat is there in windows and removing it. Edit: They actually already have instructions on how to use their scripts with a windows image downloaded from microsoft website [2] [1] https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas [2] https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/main/src/README.md https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/blob/main/src/README.md

trynewideas 4y ago
There's a breakdown on the legality of redistributing modified Windows ISOs by NTLite staff on their forum.[1] The Atlas team uses NTLite. Relevant bits: > You're permitted to only use official images provided by MSFT or authorized partners (VAR or reseller). You're not permitted to use a random image found on the Internet to start your customization (even with a valid license key). > You're not permitted to share copies of the original media, or any customized images you make. You can deploy images on behalf of another party who already owns a correct license for their own internal use. > Bottom line: You're allowed to modify a clean image if you own a license. You can't redistribute it, but you can share NTLite presets, scripts or instructions that allow other licensed users to perform the same work. Everyone must have their own OEM, retail or volume licenses. EDIT: They appear to be claiming "educational use"/EU 2009/24 protection, which, well. Good luck.[2] [1]: https://www.ntlite.com/community/index.php?threads/is-it-legal-modifying-windows-with-ntlite.2402/#post-20130 https://www.ntlite.com/community/index.php?threads/is-it-leg... [2]: https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/wiki/Legal https://github.com/Atlas-OS/Atlas/wiki/Legal