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Duffy did testify against FTX’s proposal in Congress back in May: https://www.cmegroup.com/content/dam/cmegroup/media-room/speeches-and-comment-letters/2022/ter

Duffy did testify against FTX’s proposal in Congress back in May: https://www.cmegroup.com/content/dam/cmegroup/media-room/speeches-and-comment-letters/2022/terry-duffy-testimony-to-house-agriculture-committee.pdf https://www.cmegroup.com/content/dam/cmegroup/media-room/spe... It’s pretty strongly worded: > FTX’s Proposal is glaringly deficient and poses significant risk to market stability and market participants. Granted, he didn’t publicly call the guy a fraud. Avoiding libel lawsuits is probably a good habit for a risk manager.

otterley 4y ago
It's not slander[1] if it's true. Moreover, calling someone a "fraud" is likely to be viewed by a court as a statement of opinion, not of fact, and so it's likely non-actionable under U.S. common law. [1] Libel is written defamation; slander is oral.
- gnicholas 4y ago
  You're right that a court might find you to be expressing an opinion if you call someone a fraud, but you'll spend a lot of money on your legal defense to find this out. Calling a deep-pocketed person a fraud is buying an expensive lawsuit. Also, the more memorable mnemonic (at least IMO) is "slander is spoken, libel is not".
  - ithkuil 4y ago
    The quote is: "Slander is spoken. In print, it's libel"
    - dr_dshiv 4y ago
      Spoken slander, literate libel
    - gnicholas 4y ago
      You seem to be quoting Spider-Man (if my quick google search is on point); I was quoting my law school professor. Is Spider-Man well-known as the source of this mnemonic? I’m pretty sure lawyers were saying it for decades before the books/movies came out, but I could be wrong.
      - ithkuil 4y ago
        Well, memes tend to plant in our collective heads, so I guess yes? Chances are that more people have seen spider man than met your law professor, but yes I'm not arguing that your law professor is a more authoritative source of law related stuff, just saying that I did remember the quote I quoted, for what is worth.
TacticalCoder 4y ago
> It’s pretty strongly worded: He also says it is important for marketstakeholders and the CFTC to investigate the clear conflict of interest (between FTX and Alameda). And he ends saying that even though he is for innovation, he says that innovation which is found to increase risk unacceptably or fails to protect consumer is against the law. Pretty good read IMO.
darawk 4y ago
That's a red herring though. FTX's proposal was good - it was just contrary to CME's profit interests.
- graeme 4y ago
  Given everything we know of FTX, I would be shocked it they managed to produce a proposed commodites trading regulation which is: 1. Radically different from the current one, and 2. Good Not impossible it’s true but I’d say the onus is to prove that, given the source and given the current system functions well enough
  - darawk 4y ago
    Many of the TradFi HFT firms were in support of FTX's proposal. The people that ran FTX were generally reasonably competent at finance (ex Jane Street), but extremely cavalier about risk with other people's money, and extremely poor at operational management. This is not a defense of them in any sense, other than to say that they were perfectly capable of being scumbags while also producing a good alternative to CME's futures products. You can read about all of the people that thought FTX's proposal was good here: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-15/ftx-once-had-fidelity-fortress-big-finance-sold-on-derivatives-plan https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-15/ftx-once-...
    - graeme 4y ago
      > Many of the TradFi HFT firms were in support of FTX's proposal. I read all the quotes. None appear to be Tradfi HFT firms. They instead appear to be a variety of VCs and individuals FTX paid money to or who had a crypto interest. For example the Fidelity quote is not “Fidelity, the firm”. It is from “ Fidelity Digital Assets President Tom Jessop”
      - darawk 4y ago
        Then you didn't read very carefully: > Several letters noted the fact that the derivatives market had become concentrated in a dwindling number of players, and argued that it would be safer to trust middleman-free operations such as Bankman-Fried’s. “In the traditional intermediated model, a dependence on a limited number of clearing organizations creates a systematic concentration of risk,” Richard J. McDonald, chief regulatory counsel for Susquehanna International Group, wrote “The CFTC has an opportunity to minimize market risk by enabling platforms, such as FTX, to provide direct access to trading on margin without required intermediation.” Susquehana is a very well respected tradfi quant firm: https://sig.com/ https://sig.com/ > FTX’s plan would “protect and empower” US investors, permitting retail investors access to products “previously available only to the small subset of well-resourced and powerful investors able to connect to the complex, traditional market infrastructure,” Peter L. Briger, CEO of investment manager Fortress Investment Group, wrote to the CFTC Fortress Investment Group is a very well respected tradfi firm. They're all right there. And this isn't even a complete list. If you search around, plenty of other traditional quant/HFT firms strongly supported the move. Basically the only two entities that opposed it were CME and Binance.
dereg 4y ago
[deleted - misconstrued statement]
- graeme 4y ago
  He meant SBF’s net worth was near zero or negative. Most people, even rich people, do not carry much cash in their pockets…
- xwolfi 4y ago
  Dude he meant that the net worth was all a mirage, and that anyone had more money in their pocket than SBF pretended he had in his entire net worth (because he stole it). He called him a fraud right there and all you can say is that he should have shown more respect to poor little guy SBF, him the meanie "tradfi"?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

otterley 4y ago

It's not slander[1] if it's true. Moreover, calling someone a "fraud" is likely to be viewed by a court as a statement of opinion, not of fact, and so it's likely non-actionable under U.S. common law. [1] Libel is written defamation; slander is oral.

gnicholas 4y ago
You're right that a court might find you to be expressing an opinion if you call someone a fraud, but you'll spend a lot of money on your legal defense to find this out. Calling a deep-pocketed person a fraud is buying an expensive lawsuit. Also, the more memorable mnemonic (at least IMO) is "slander is spoken, libel is not".
- ithkuil 4y ago
  The quote is: "Slander is spoken. In print, it's libel"
  - dr_dshiv 4y ago
    Spoken slander, literate libel
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    You seem to be quoting Spider-Man (if my quick google search is on point); I was quoting my law school professor. Is Spider-Man well-known as the source of this mnemonic? I’m pretty sure lawyers were saying it for decades before the books/movies came out, but I could be wrong.
    - ithkuil 4y ago
      Well, memes tend to plant in our collective heads, so I guess yes? Chances are that more people have seen spider man than met your law professor, but yes I'm not arguing that your law professor is a more authoritative source of law related stuff, just saying that I did remember the quote I quoted, for what is worth.

TacticalCoder 4y ago

> It’s pretty strongly worded: He also says it is important for marketstakeholders and the CFTC to investigate the clear conflict of interest (between FTX and Alameda). And he ends saying that even though he is for innovation, he says that innovation which is found to increase risk unacceptably or fails to protect consumer is against the law. Pretty good read IMO.

darawk 4y ago

That's a red herring though. FTX's proposal was good - it was just contrary to CME's profit interests.

graeme 4y ago
Given everything we know of FTX, I would be shocked it they managed to produce a proposed commodites trading regulation which is: 1. Radically different from the current one, and 2. Good Not impossible it’s true but I’d say the onus is to prove that, given the source and given the current system functions well enough
- darawk 4y ago
  Many of the TradFi HFT firms were in support of FTX's proposal. The people that ran FTX were generally reasonably competent at finance (ex Jane Street), but extremely cavalier about risk with other people's money, and extremely poor at operational management. This is not a defense of them in any sense, other than to say that they were perfectly capable of being scumbags while also producing a good alternative to CME's futures products. You can read about all of the people that thought FTX's proposal was good here: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-15/ftx-once-had-fidelity-fortress-big-finance-sold-on-derivatives-plan https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-11-15/ftx-once-...
  - graeme 4y ago
    > Many of the TradFi HFT firms were in support of FTX's proposal. I read all the quotes. None appear to be Tradfi HFT firms. They instead appear to be a variety of VCs and individuals FTX paid money to or who had a crypto interest. For example the Fidelity quote is not “Fidelity, the firm”. It is from “ Fidelity Digital Assets President Tom Jessop”
    - darawk 4y ago
      Then you didn't read very carefully: > Several letters noted the fact that the derivatives market had become concentrated in a dwindling number of players, and argued that it would be safer to trust middleman-free operations such as Bankman-Fried’s. “In the traditional intermediated model, a dependence on a limited number of clearing organizations creates a systematic concentration of risk,” Richard J. McDonald, chief regulatory counsel for Susquehanna International Group, wrote “The CFTC has an opportunity to minimize market risk by enabling platforms, such as FTX, to provide direct access to trading on margin without required intermediation.” Susquehana is a very well respected tradfi quant firm: https://sig.com/ https://sig.com/ > FTX’s plan would “protect and empower” US investors, permitting retail investors access to products “previously available only to the small subset of well-resourced and powerful investors able to connect to the complex, traditional market infrastructure,” Peter L. Briger, CEO of investment manager Fortress Investment Group, wrote to the CFTC Fortress Investment Group is a very well respected tradfi firm. They're all right there. And this isn't even a complete list. If you search around, plenty of other traditional quant/HFT firms strongly supported the move. Basically the only two entities that opposed it were CME and Binance.

dereg 4y ago

[deleted - misconstrued statement]

graeme 4y ago
He meant SBF’s net worth was near zero or negative. Most people, even rich people, do not carry much cash in their pockets…
xwolfi 4y ago
Dude he meant that the net worth was all a mirage, and that anyone had more money in their pocket than SBF pretended he had in his entire net worth (because he stole it). He called him a fraud right there and all you can say is that he should have shown more respect to poor little guy SBF, him the meanie "tradfi"?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]