11 ms·

An autistic man was surfing the internet on his dad’s sofa, then the FBI arrived

helsinkiandrew 4y ago
https://archive.ph/3NspP https://archive.ph/3NspP
simonjgreen 4y ago
Interesting related trivia. Simon Baron-Cohen, the psychologist mentioned in the article, is cousin of Sascha Baron-Cohen: the actor who plays Borat and Ali-G. Their family contains an unusually high quantity of professional creatives (actors, screenwriters, artists). I remember spending a non-trivial amount of time in college around ~Y2K in psychology lectures on the similar overlapping skills required between a successful artist and a successful psychologist, looking at their family in particular.
- angrycontrarian 4y ago
  Truly incredible that such a small group of people could be so well represented in academia and media. My hat goes off to them!
- xcdzvyn 4y ago
  I'd suspect Americans would best know him has the titular character of The Dictator. Ali G has gotta be a bit too British for that audience.
  - birdyrooster 4y ago
    Borat more so. Aside from the fact there was a sequel, Borat 2 exposed Rudy Giuliani in a very unflattering way that got a ton of coverage. Much more than The Dictator.
  - serf 4y ago
    Ali G was on in the United States longer than it was in Britain, first on HBO re-syndicated way later on FXX -- the U.S. seems well aware of Ali G.
- googlryas 4y ago
  I think it's the classic formula: rich person marries artsy person, children get to engage in artsy pursuits with little regard for the here and now of paying their heating bill.
  - Cthulhu_ 4y ago
    Indeed; people in working class are discouraged from pursuing the arts because it's difficult to turn it into a paying career. But if you're born in wealth and financial security you don't need to worry about that. I believe it was one of the outcomes of universal basic income trials, people would engage more with the arts and creativity.
    - prisoner655321 4y ago
      >I believe it was one of the outcomes of universal basic income trials, people would engage more with the arts and creativity. Off topic but this result is one of many reasons why UBI will not be established any time soon. People in general are not ready for the challenging “creativity” that would come from otherwise “idle” individuals.
jamesholden 4y ago
[dead]
onigiri420 4y ago
I tried to keep an open mind reading this. For those who didn't have time to read the whole thing, according to other articles online the guy would pretend to be the Parkland shooter and send messages to the victim's families. > As examples of the messages, Fleury wrote, “I’m your abductor I’m kidnapping you fool;” “With the power of my AR-15 I take your loved ones away from you;” and “I’m the monster that killed your family,” according to the opinion. What a horrible thing to do. His autism shouldn't give him a pass.
- xorfish 4y ago
  > What a horrible thing to do. His autism shouldn't give him a pass. You do understand that he doesn't understand that this is a horrible thing to do?
  - colechristensen 4y ago
    Then this guardians are responsible for his actions and he needs his freedoms legally taken away.
    - blowski 4y ago
      I think that gets to the crux of the issue. If Brandon is culpable for his actions, it's right he is punished. If he is not, then should he have the freedoms that allowed him to do this? Let's assume culpability is a spectrum, not a binary. How do you assess someone's culpability?
    - kube-system 4y ago
      Just ban him from using the internet. That was what happened during his bail and the article seems to indicate he was happy to follow the rules he was given. Prison is only a deterrent because people know they did something wrong and know they shouldn’t do it again. Putting someone in prison who doesn’t know why they are in prison makes no practical sense. It’s only going to make his condition worse.
      - 4y ago
causi 4y ago
This title is clickbait. A man harassed the victims of a mass murderer and happened to be autistic. Here's a hot take: if you're not mentally competent to be held responsible for the crimes you commit using a tool like a computer or a gun, you should not have access to that tool.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- maeln 4y ago
  If you go there, then the blame should be placed on the parent, not the kid, since he was the one giving access to "the tool". But this is a serious lack of empathy. Being the parent of a neurodiverse child is difficult. The first thing is that you cannot relate to him in the way that you can with a neurotypical child. You have to understand the full spectrum of his differences, but how can you ? This is a job psychiatrist already struggle to do. You can observe your child, ask him question and infer based on those observation, but that will not necessarily give you the full picture. The article is a prime exemple, the kid was "happy" and never displayed before the behaviour that landed him in trouble with the law, so how the father should have expected that his child might go online and say horrible thing ? And to be fair, the same is often true even for neurotypical child.
  - causi 4y ago
    never displayed before the behaviour that landed him in trouble with the law How do you know that? His word? His parents' word? All we know is he's never before harassed someone to the point they went to the police and the police followed it up with the relevant platform, got his information, and filed it. Being the parent of a neurodiverse child is difficult. What's this have to do with the price of tea in China? I'm not saying the police should have showed up and shot him if he didn't cooperate like a neurotypical person would. I'm saying being autistic doesn't make the consequences and liability for your actions just evaporate.
  - googlryas 4y ago
    Having an idea of what your child is up to on the internet is a good idea for a parent of a neurodiverse child.
encryptluks2 4y ago
Imagine if every bank robber, rapist, drunk driver, etc could say they shouldn't be held to the same standards as others because they have a mental condition that caused them to do what they did. It works sometimes if you're rich enough, like the guy who claimed affluenza for killing someone while drunk driving.
- gattilorenz 4y ago
  Imagine if we actually asked for evidence of those claims instead of accepting them at face value… geez, that’d be a completely different situation, wouldn’t it?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- woofyman 4y ago
  The affluenza teen killed 4 people.
- nigerianbrince 4y ago
  This guy was diagnosed as a child.
- goodpoint 4y ago
  > Imagine if every bank robber, rapist, drunk driver, etc could say... ...and receive effective therapy instead of punishment? Yes, I can imagine it and that would be a much better world.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    "Effective therapy" for which illness? Is there a bank robber virus I'm unaware of?
    - temporary22 4y ago
      Yes, and you should be very worried about it. If you have it you will not be able to change your behavior and you will have to rob banks all your life to thrive /s
yCloser 4y ago
His family should have monitored his online activity but failed horribly to do so.
- rippercushions 4y ago
  He was 21 at the time and thus legally an adult.
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    You can't really have it both ways. If he was a responsible adult then he deserves the punishment that he's getting. If he wasn't fully capable then his family really needed to be practicing ongoing oversight over him.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
cuteboy19 4y ago
Even if it were not misleading, this is not really interesting is it
bilekas 4y ago
The story of Darius McCollum is brilliant and tragic at the same time, he was trained on the side by the drivers who were fascinated how much he enjoyed the trains and they let him drive them while they would go off for lunch or whatever. He was arrested so many times though and wouldn't hire him for those reasons but always felt a bit cruel.
- mcv 4y ago
  Couldn't he be trained to be a responsible train or bus driver? It's a shame not to let society benefit from this kind of passion. I once knew a homeless guy who desperately wanted to become a metro driver. He got into a training program, then someone else revealed that he was homeless, and he got kicked out. That sort of thing is just tragic and destructive. Of course in the case of an autistic person, it's not a given that he will be able to carry the responsibility for driving such a vehicle, but I say it's worth at least trying, and finding some spot for him.
  - bilekas 4y ago
    The thing is he was trained, unofficially and he did a flawless job! No issues, would announce each stops on the trams and was supposedly super helpful to everyone. They just couldn't hire him because he had been charged with it. And it's public transport in NYC IIRC doesn't allow. There are some videos on his story - its wild. : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=762j14Qm9gM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=762j14Qm9gM
  - 1letterunixname 4y ago
    It's illegal to be poor in America. (tm) Reminds me of a former Microsoft manager I met who said he fired people for not owning shoes. Real compassionate, that one.
formerly_proven 4y ago
> Darius McCollum [...] In 2015 he was charged with stealing a Greyhound bus. The judge accepted his plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, based on his autism, but sent him indefinitely to a mental institution. Ah but it's worse than that > In October 2018, a Judge ruled that Darius was dangerously mentally ill. In New York State, after a “mentally unfit” plea, a judge decides how dangerous a defendant is. There are three options. “Track 1” - the most dangerous, to “Track 3” - for non violent offenders. Darius’ attorney fought for him to be designated as a “Track 3” offender, meaning he could receive services while retaining some freedom. The judge, however, ruled that Darius was “Track 1,” the most dangerous assignation available. This was against the recommendation of the state’s psychiatrists, who all testified that Darius is not dangerous and should be “Track 3.” Would've expected the Hannibal Lecter treatment to be dependent on a prior record of violence.
- zozbot234 4y ago
  This dude was hijacking buses and trains. He was absolutely a danger to society.
  - navjack27 4y ago
    I don't see how he was a danger to society especially if he ended up somehow getting hired by the transit. Black guy with autism and ocd drives buses and trains and gets them to their locations without any issues. Gets arrested and then isn't allowed to leave the state to go with family that could help him and isn't able to get help that could help him and then he relapses. And the cycle continues and the cycle leads to him being homeless and then the cycle continues.. The cycle could have been broken if he was allowed to get help allowed to actually work this job that he very much was obsessed with wanting to do good except he wasn't employed to do. Wow such a danger to society... Caused by the fucking legal system!
    - zozbot234 4y ago
      So anyone should simply be allowed to drive buses and trains without proper training, if they feel like it? Why not expand that to cars, while we're at it? Safety regulations are written in blood.
autismparent 4y ago
(Creating a throwaway account to respond to this post rather than use my regular HN account) I see the comments about what the kid did being abhorrent and that autism should not excuse it. I understand where these commenters are coming from. But allow me to tell you what you're missing. I'm the parent of an autistic pre-teen. He's "high functioning" because he can talk, read, write, do math and goes to a regular school. But I can totally see him doing something stupid and insensitive like this. The problem is there are several things he just doesn't understand no matter how many times you explain it to him. There are echoes of this problem in the article: > He [Brandon] just doesn’t understand why he’s still in prison. > Brandon recently started writing letters to the prison warden and to Judge Ruiz, asking to be let out. “Brandon, that’s just not going to work,” Fleury tells him. But he has to keep explaining it. These days they have the same conversations, over and over, round and round, and get nowhere: Brandon just doesn’t understand. It's obvious to us that sending such hateful, hurtful messages is wrong. But some autistic brains simply do not understand this. Here are some things my kid does not understand no matter how many times we explain it to him: * If someone doesn't want to include you (e.g. in their Minecraft server, or party), there is no point in crashing in uninvited. * You don't say to someone every day that they stink (have BO). * You can go to the bathroom when you're at your piano teacher's house. * Just because one Chinese girl bullied you does not mean all people of Chinese origin are evil. If you haven't experienced interactions with such an autistic person, you would not believe there exists anyone who doesn't get something so basic. Even if you've met several autistic people, it's possible you haven't met someone with this specific blindspot. So yes, if I were the judge in Brandon's case, I'd be more lenient.
- soco 4y ago
  It might be obvious to others that something was "wrong" but also against some of the wrongs there are laws. Could be useful to explain this guy that he broke a law by doing it? So instead of explaining the feelings part, to insist on the technicalities - also how to avoid it in the future (if it applies)?
- badcppdev 4y ago
  This is really interesting, thank you. I had never heard your highlighted point that a child won't understand despite multiple reminders. On a personal level that sounds incredibly difficult and heartbreaking to deal with. As a HN commentator do you have ideas for how society should work with regards to this issue? Especially regarding preventing harmful situations where parents of autistic children aren't able to provide enough support.
xorfish 4y ago
At the very core of criminal justice rests an assumption, that is false. > The concept of criminal justice rests on the fundamental principle that we are responsible for our own behavior. Human behavior is the result of lots of factors, none of which they have control over. evolution, culture, prenatal environment, uprising and more shape human behavior and what they want and need. This is true for good as well as bad behavior.
- klodolph 4y ago
  This argument is unsound. Philosophers have been talking about justice and morality for æons, something so small isn’t going to turn our thoughts on justice on their head. Responsibility is really a kind of duty. When we say that you are responsible for your own behavior, we are not saying that “you are the sole cause for your own behavior”, we are saying that you have a duty to control your behavior. Duty is a moral concept, not a factual concept. So if you think that this assumption at the very core of criminal justice is “false”, you have misinterpreted it as some kind of statement of fact (which would be refutable). It is not a statement of fact, you can’t refute it.
  - xorfish 4y ago
    > Philosophers have been talking about justice and morality for æons, something so small isn’t going to turn our thoughts on justice on their head. Yes, but now neuroscientists show light on how our brain works. > we are saying that you have a duty to control your behavior. My point is that humans are not "in control" of their behavior.
    - luckylion 4y ago
      > My point is that humans are not "in control" of their behavior. Not at all or not completely?
      - xorfish 4y ago
        Not at all.
nonrandomstring 4y ago
Harrowing. Something good coming from that well written article is that, despite knowing many autistic people and thinking I know a little about it, I now have a better understanding of autism. There are many angles and interpretations given. It was worth the read.
13324 4y ago
https://web.archive.org/web/20221122085749/https://www.economist.com/1843/2022/11/21/an-autistic-man-was-surfing-the-internet-on-his-dads-sofa-then-the-fbi-turned-up https://web.archive.org/web/20221122085749/https://www.econo...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
totetsu 4y ago
The 4channers are aware of this kind of thing. I'm sure I've seen comments like 'that's some special kind of autism there' in reply to something like the manifesto of a to be mass murderer.
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  4chan itself - or at least a lot of the memes I've seen - is proud of the "autistic trolls" monikers; I wouldn't be surprised if this guy was on there and encouraged by the others.
tb_technical 4y ago
You can be frustrated with autistic people when they do terrible things, but at the end of the day, if they're low functioning, you have to realize they're not playing with a full deck of cards. You can't be against institutional oppression while supporting the punishment of the differently abled. There seems to be a lot of people in this comment section that have had bad experiences with autistic trolls. That's really unfortunate, but the answer isn't to use the law and try to make them an example - that's almost certainly punching down.
- psychphysic 4y ago
  He understood what he was doing was hurting people and he continued for his own satisfaction. That's case closed in my book. Should he get bespoke support to avoid recidivism and encourage rehabilitation? Yes, absolutely everyone should in prison.
thinking_monkey 4y ago

https://archive.ph/3NspP https://archive.ph/3NspP

Interesting related trivia. Simon Baron-Cohen, the psychologist mentioned in the article, is cousin of Sascha Baron-Cohen: the actor who plays Borat and Ali-G. Their family contains an unusually high quantity of professional creatives (actors, screenwriters, artists). I remember spending a non-trivial amount of time in college around ~Y2K in psychology lectures on the similar overlapping skills required between a successful artist and a successful psychologist, looking at their family in particular.

angrycontrarian 4y ago
Truly incredible that such a small group of people could be so well represented in academia and media. My hat goes off to them!
xcdzvyn 4y ago
I'd suspect Americans would best know him has the titular character of The Dictator. Ali G has gotta be a bit too British for that audience.
- birdyrooster 4y ago
  Borat more so. Aside from the fact there was a sequel, Borat 2 exposed Rudy Giuliani in a very unflattering way that got a ton of coverage. Much more than The Dictator.
- serf 4y ago
  Ali G was on in the United States longer than it was in Britain, first on HBO re-syndicated way later on FXX -- the U.S. seems well aware of Ali G.
googlryas 4y ago
I think it's the classic formula: rich person marries artsy person, children get to engage in artsy pursuits with little regard for the here and now of paying their heating bill.
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  Indeed; people in working class are discouraged from pursuing the arts because it's difficult to turn it into a paying career. But if you're born in wealth and financial security you don't need to worry about that. I believe it was one of the outcomes of universal basic income trials, people would engage more with the arts and creativity.
  - prisoner655321 4y ago
    >I believe it was one of the outcomes of universal basic income trials, people would engage more with the arts and creativity. Off topic but this result is one of many reasons why UBI will not be established any time soon. People in general are not ready for the challenging “creativity” that would come from otherwise “idle” individuals.

jamesholden 4y ago

[dead]

onigiri420 4y ago

I tried to keep an open mind reading this. For those who didn't have time to read the whole thing, according to other articles online the guy would pretend to be the Parkland shooter and send messages to the victim's families. > As examples of the messages, Fleury wrote, “I’m your abductor I’m kidnapping you fool;” “With the power of my AR-15 I take your loved ones away from you;” and “I’m the monster that killed your family,” according to the opinion. What a horrible thing to do. His autism shouldn't give him a pass.

xorfish 4y ago
> What a horrible thing to do. His autism shouldn't give him a pass. You do understand that he doesn't understand that this is a horrible thing to do?
- colechristensen 4y ago
  Then this guardians are responsible for his actions and he needs his freedoms legally taken away.
  - blowski 4y ago
    I think that gets to the crux of the issue. If Brandon is culpable for his actions, it's right he is punished. If he is not, then should he have the freedoms that allowed him to do this? Let's assume culpability is a spectrum, not a binary. How do you assess someone's culpability?
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Just ban him from using the internet. That was what happened during his bail and the article seems to indicate he was happy to follow the rules he was given. Prison is only a deterrent because people know they did something wrong and know they shouldn’t do it again. Putting someone in prison who doesn’t know why they are in prison makes no practical sense. It’s only going to make his condition worse.
    - 4y ago

causi 4y ago

This title is clickbait. A man harassed the victims of a mass murderer and happened to be autistic. Here's a hot take: if you're not mentally competent to be held responsible for the crimes you commit using a tool like a computer or a gun, you should not have access to that tool.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
maeln 4y ago
If you go there, then the blame should be placed on the parent, not the kid, since he was the one giving access to "the tool". But this is a serious lack of empathy. Being the parent of a neurodiverse child is difficult. The first thing is that you cannot relate to him in the way that you can with a neurotypical child. You have to understand the full spectrum of his differences, but how can you ? This is a job psychiatrist already struggle to do. You can observe your child, ask him question and infer based on those observation, but that will not necessarily give you the full picture. The article is a prime exemple, the kid was "happy" and never displayed before the behaviour that landed him in trouble with the law, so how the father should have expected that his child might go online and say horrible thing ? And to be fair, the same is often true even for neurotypical child.
- causi 4y ago
  never displayed before the behaviour that landed him in trouble with the law How do you know that? His word? His parents' word? All we know is he's never before harassed someone to the point they went to the police and the police followed it up with the relevant platform, got his information, and filed it. Being the parent of a neurodiverse child is difficult. What's this have to do with the price of tea in China? I'm not saying the police should have showed up and shot him if he didn't cooperate like a neurotypical person would. I'm saying being autistic doesn't make the consequences and liability for your actions just evaporate.
- googlryas 4y ago
  Having an idea of what your child is up to on the internet is a good idea for a parent of a neurodiverse child.

encryptluks2 4y ago

Imagine if every bank robber, rapist, drunk driver, etc could say they shouldn't be held to the same standards as others because they have a mental condition that caused them to do what they did. It works sometimes if you're rich enough, like the guy who claimed affluenza for killing someone while drunk driving.

gattilorenz 4y ago
Imagine if we actually asked for evidence of those claims instead of accepting them at face value… geez, that’d be a completely different situation, wouldn’t it?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
woofyman 4y ago
The affluenza teen killed 4 people.
nigerianbrince 4y ago
This guy was diagnosed as a child.
goodpoint 4y ago
> Imagine if every bank robber, rapist, drunk driver, etc could say... ...and receive effective therapy instead of punishment? Yes, I can imagine it and that would be a much better world.
- luckylion 4y ago
  "Effective therapy" for which illness? Is there a bank robber virus I'm unaware of?
  - temporary22 4y ago
    Yes, and you should be very worried about it. If you have it you will not be able to change your behavior and you will have to rob banks all your life to thrive /s

yCloser 4y ago

His family should have monitored his online activity but failed horribly to do so.

rippercushions 4y ago
He was 21 at the time and thus legally an adult.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  You can't really have it both ways. If he was a responsible adult then he deserves the punishment that he's getting. If he wasn't fully capable then his family really needed to be practicing ongoing oversight over him.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

cuteboy19 4y ago

Even if it were not misleading, this is not really interesting is it

bilekas 4y ago

The story of Darius McCollum is brilliant and tragic at the same time, he was trained on the side by the drivers who were fascinated how much he enjoyed the trains and they let him drive them while they would go off for lunch or whatever. He was arrested so many times though and wouldn't hire him for those reasons but always felt a bit cruel.

mcv 4y ago
Couldn't he be trained to be a responsible train or bus driver? It's a shame not to let society benefit from this kind of passion. I once knew a homeless guy who desperately wanted to become a metro driver. He got into a training program, then someone else revealed that he was homeless, and he got kicked out. That sort of thing is just tragic and destructive. Of course in the case of an autistic person, it's not a given that he will be able to carry the responsibility for driving such a vehicle, but I say it's worth at least trying, and finding some spot for him.
- bilekas 4y ago
  The thing is he was trained, unofficially and he did a flawless job! No issues, would announce each stops on the trams and was supposedly super helpful to everyone. They just couldn't hire him because he had been charged with it. And it's public transport in NYC IIRC doesn't allow. There are some videos on his story - its wild. : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=762j14Qm9gM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=762j14Qm9gM
- 1letterunixname 4y ago
  It's illegal to be poor in America. (tm) Reminds me of a former Microsoft manager I met who said he fired people for not owning shoes. Real compassionate, that one.

formerly_proven 4y ago

> Darius McCollum [...] In 2015 he was charged with stealing a Greyhound bus. The judge accepted his plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, based on his autism, but sent him indefinitely to a mental institution. Ah but it's worse than that > In October 2018, a Judge ruled that Darius was dangerously mentally ill. In New York State, after a “mentally unfit” plea, a judge decides how dangerous a defendant is. There are three options. “Track 1” - the most dangerous, to “Track 3” - for non violent offenders. Darius’ attorney fought for him to be designated as a “Track 3” offender, meaning he could receive services while retaining some freedom. The judge, however, ruled that Darius was “Track 1,” the most dangerous assignation available. This was against the recommendation of the state’s psychiatrists, who all testified that Darius is not dangerous and should be “Track 3.” Would've expected the Hannibal Lecter treatment to be dependent on a prior record of violence.

zozbot234 4y ago
This dude was hijacking buses and trains. He was absolutely a danger to society.
- navjack27 4y ago
  I don't see how he was a danger to society especially if he ended up somehow getting hired by the transit. Black guy with autism and ocd drives buses and trains and gets them to their locations without any issues. Gets arrested and then isn't allowed to leave the state to go with family that could help him and isn't able to get help that could help him and then he relapses. And the cycle continues and the cycle leads to him being homeless and then the cycle continues.. The cycle could have been broken if he was allowed to get help allowed to actually work this job that he very much was obsessed with wanting to do good except he wasn't employed to do. Wow such a danger to society... Caused by the fucking legal system!
  - zozbot234 4y ago
    So anyone should simply be allowed to drive buses and trains without proper training, if they feel like it? Why not expand that to cars, while we're at it? Safety regulations are written in blood.

autismparent 4y ago

(Creating a throwaway account to respond to this post rather than use my regular HN account) I see the comments about what the kid did being abhorrent and that autism should not excuse it. I understand where these commenters are coming from. But allow me to tell you what you're missing. I'm the parent of an autistic pre-teen. He's "high functioning" because he can talk, read, write, do math and goes to a regular school. But I can totally see him doing something stupid and insensitive like this. The problem is there are several things he just doesn't understand no matter how many times you explain it to him. There are echoes of this problem in the article: > He [Brandon] just doesn’t understand why he’s still in prison. > Brandon recently started writing letters to the prison warden and to Judge Ruiz, asking to be let out. “Brandon, that’s just not going to work,” Fleury tells him. But he has to keep explaining it. These days they have the same conversations, over and over, round and round, and get nowhere: Brandon just doesn’t understand. It's obvious to us that sending such hateful, hurtful messages is wrong. But some autistic brains simply do not understand this. Here are some things my kid does not understand no matter how many times we explain it to him: * If someone doesn't want to include you (e.g. in their Minecraft server, or party), there is no point in crashing in uninvited. * You don't say to someone every day that they stink (have BO). * You can go to the bathroom when you're at your piano teacher's house. * Just because one Chinese girl bullied you does not mean all people of Chinese origin are evil. If you haven't experienced interactions with such an autistic person, you would not believe there exists anyone who doesn't get something so basic. Even if you've met several autistic people, it's possible you haven't met someone with this specific blindspot. So yes, if I were the judge in Brandon's case, I'd be more lenient.

soco 4y ago
It might be obvious to others that something was "wrong" but also against some of the wrongs there are laws. Could be useful to explain this guy that he broke a law by doing it? So instead of explaining the feelings part, to insist on the technicalities - also how to avoid it in the future (if it applies)?
badcppdev 4y ago
This is really interesting, thank you. I had never heard your highlighted point that a child won't understand despite multiple reminders. On a personal level that sounds incredibly difficult and heartbreaking to deal with. As a HN commentator do you have ideas for how society should work with regards to this issue? Especially regarding preventing harmful situations where parents of autistic children aren't able to provide enough support.

xorfish 4y ago

At the very core of criminal justice rests an assumption, that is false. > The concept of criminal justice rests on the fundamental principle that we are responsible for our own behavior. Human behavior is the result of lots of factors, none of which they have control over. evolution, culture, prenatal environment, uprising and more shape human behavior and what they want and need. This is true for good as well as bad behavior.

klodolph 4y ago
This argument is unsound. Philosophers have been talking about justice and morality for æons, something so small isn’t going to turn our thoughts on justice on their head. Responsibility is really a kind of duty. When we say that you are responsible for your own behavior, we are not saying that “you are the sole cause for your own behavior”, we are saying that you have a duty to control your behavior. Duty is a moral concept, not a factual concept. So if you think that this assumption at the very core of criminal justice is “false”, you have misinterpreted it as some kind of statement of fact (which would be refutable). It is not a statement of fact, you can’t refute it.
- xorfish 4y ago
  > Philosophers have been talking about justice and morality for æons, something so small isn’t going to turn our thoughts on justice on their head. Yes, but now neuroscientists show light on how our brain works. > we are saying that you have a duty to control your behavior. My point is that humans are not "in control" of their behavior.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    > My point is that humans are not "in control" of their behavior. Not at all or not completely?
    - xorfish 4y ago
      Not at all.

nonrandomstring 4y ago

Harrowing. Something good coming from that well written article is that, despite knowing many autistic people and thinking I know a little about it, I now have a better understanding of autism. There are many angles and interpretations given. It was worth the read.

13324 4y ago

https://web.archive.org/web/20221122085749/https://www.economist.com/1843/2022/11/21/an-autistic-man-was-surfing-the-internet-on-his-dads-sofa-then-the-fbi-turned-up https://web.archive.org/web/20221122085749/https://www.econo...

deleted 4y ago

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totetsu 4y ago

The 4channers are aware of this kind of thing. I'm sure I've seen comments like 'that's some special kind of autism there' in reply to something like the manifesto of a to be mass murderer.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago
4chan itself - or at least a lot of the memes I've seen - is proud of the "autistic trolls" monikers; I wouldn't be surprised if this guy was on there and encouraged by the others.

tb_technical 4y ago

You can be frustrated with autistic people when they do terrible things, but at the end of the day, if they're low functioning, you have to realize they're not playing with a full deck of cards. You can't be against institutional oppression while supporting the punishment of the differently abled. There seems to be a lot of people in this comment section that have had bad experiences with autistic trolls. That's really unfortunate, but the answer isn't to use the law and try to make them an example - that's almost certainly punching down.

psychphysic 4y ago
He understood what he was doing was hurting people and he continued for his own satisfaction. That's case closed in my book. Should he get bespoke support to avoid recidivism and encourage rehabilitation? Yes, absolutely everyone should in prison.

thinking_monkey 4y ago