4 ms·

It wasn't only news outlets. A majority of my... politically-noisy tech friends on Facebook went through a recent phase of intensely posting about Twitter on fi

It wasn't only news outlets. A majority of my... politically-noisy tech friends on Facebook went through a recent phase of intensely posting about Twitter on fire and collapsing. Now just because they're "in tech" doesn't mean they have any idea about Twitter, but they should at least know enough to know they don't know what's going to happen, but obviously they're not actually using their brains when posting comments like that. Point is a lot of people opposed to Musk have been participating in a spiraling echo chamber of fairy tales and wishful thinking, it's not just journalists (although clearly they're printing lies with ulterior motvies too, as usual).

emodendroket 4y ago
I'll put my cards on the table and say I would have been just as happy to see him fail as anyone else, but it did begin to take on the tenor of the constant, never-came-true stories about how any minute now they were going to spring the trap on Donald Trump and he'd get thrown out of office. e: I did not mean for this to be an invitation for everyone to argue about the merits or demerits of Donald Trump.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - freshpots 4y ago
    - throwawaylinux 4y ago
      Yes, I've heard it all before. People who were drawn in to the baseless Russiagate conspiracy theory, and all the other ones have said exactly the same thing to me as you are now. Sure, I'm a secular-heretic for wanting to see evidence for extraordinary assertions from people with obvious ulterior motives, rather than taking them on faith. So far, the conspiracy theorists have had a poor track record as far as I can see. That said, I don't engage or try to debate my friends on it, they have always become extremely upset by any debate on such topics. And they're not hurting anybody so my philosophy is just to leave them to their faith. I don't go around challenging people to prove the existence of God whenever they make a religious Facebook post either, I'm not that kind of asshole.
      - astrange 4y ago
        > Yes, I've heard it all before. People who were drawn in to the baseless Russiagate conspiracy theory As you can read in the Republican-written Senate Intelligence Committee report, everything about Russiagate did in fact happen and it was 100% real. (except for the Steele dossier/pee tape) This essentially comes down to Trump realizing that if you say all your crimes in public, nobody will think it's a crime and it won't be reported as one, because you don't "seem like you have something to hide".
        A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
        I might be basically be picking at it with what I am about to say next, but was it not admitted that 'Steele dossier' itself was a rather elaborate disinformation campaign[1] as noted by Fiona Hill? I really don't be want to be this guy, but if we are going to have that kind of discussion here, we might as well discuss current state of knowledge. edit: All this is relevant, because that dossier itself was the basis for 'Russiagate'. I am ok with a rational counter-argument. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steele_dossier#Risk_of_contamination_with_Russian_disinformation_considered https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steele_dossier#Risk_of_contami...
        throwawaylinux 4y ago
        > As you can read in the Republican-written Senate Intelligence Committee report, everything about Russiagate did in fact happen and it was 100% real. (except for the Steele dossier/pee tape) The conspiracy theory is that Trump colluded or conspired with Putin to hack the election. No evidence to support this has ever been produced. I know that may be difficult to accept, and I ascribe no malice to those who genuinely believe conspiracy theories, they are a powerful psychological trap.
        astrange 4y ago
        When Trump told Russia to release his opponent's emails they'd hacked, and they did release them afterwards on the same day, he got away with it because he just did it in public on stage, and so cynics can't accept it because it's too obvious - it wasn't done on an encrypted Signal chat in a smoky backroom, so it must not be a conspiracy, so it must've been a coincidence. Plus his campaign manager was working for him for free and instead being paid by a GRU agent for their targeting data. You can try denying the Senate/Mueller reports on this, but you should read them, since they do say this.
    - theGnuMe 4y ago
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
      Some of our friendships are not based merely on political affiliation. This is not a shot, but please understand that not everyone is automatically looking for a clan and an enemy to bond over ( even though it is not uncommon and perfectly rational thing to do based on our evolutionary path alone ). Not to search very far, me and my coworkers discuss politics ( and we do have somewhat divergent views ). The bubble only exists if one does not talk with other people. In other words, other people being like-minded is not an automatic pre-requisite.
    - dcow 4y ago
      I actually find this fascinating and and am not taking sides. If Jan 6th was literally an attempt to overthrow the government, why hasn’t Trump been convicted of treason? I thought swift action would be taken if the slant in the stories news media have reported is accurate. But more importantly, why can’t you be friends with people who have different politics? Honestly I’m not sure what word best describes a world where everyone has to think the same to get along, but I have to think it’s far from ideal.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - Bud 4y ago
        [dead]
    - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
      The bubble where the cronies who helped plan it were huddled together in the Willard to watch the show put on by the people they directly interfaced with and who were equipped to breach the building.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  I personally have somewhat mixed feelings. I do enjoy a good dumpster fire like any good internet denizen ( and I won't deny that there is an odd level of.. excitement maybe.. that one major social platform may go down ). I have no love for social media as some of my posts may indicate and for a variety of reasons including the amount of oxygen this creation takes and the amount of confusion it causes in general population, it would not be the worst thing ever. That said, the sheer amount of weird emotion attached to this particular billionaire is just perplexing. Only few years ago he could do no wrong. Today, it seems, he is being ganged up on including by some of his biggest internet fans. And media oblige for whatever reason. I dislike billionaires, but I dislike them as a caste in our societies. I don't see Elon as a savior of mankind or the devil, but those emotions that swirl around him are made to make him look like one or the other. Somehow, one is supposed to pick sides. Trump seems to create the same emotions. It is truly fascinating.
  - inferiorhuman 4y ago
    I was about to say that you're talking about two different problems. But, no, what's happening to Musk is the same thing that happened to Trump. Their inner circles knew how rotten they both were, but outside of that they were largely unknown. New Yorkers despise trump and have for ages. From tenants, to contractors, to business partners they all know what a shitheel he is. Outside of NY though trump was largely seen as an affable caricature of a rich dude. Case in point: NYC as a whole isn't averse to republicans and yet they still rejected trump in 2016. Elon's the same way. Sure he called that diver a pedophile. But he also had a Tesla employee hounded until he fled the country. Musk had the guy swatted for fucks sake (or tried to at least). Or what about the journalist who pissed him off and ended up having some Tesla features disabled on his car. Or his ex-wife who talked about being treated like an employee. These things were mostly inclined to stay in the background until Musk elbowed his way into the spotlight. Now the whole world can see that he went full on Howard Hughes.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
      << Outside of NY though trump was largely seen as an affable caricature of a rich dude. This is a very interesting statement to me. I am trying to recall conversations with my wife's side of the family, who supported Trump ( initially, mostly ) and their impression of him was almost exactly that ( plus, "he is a businessman so he knows the game" or something to that effect ). I am in in Chicagoland, but now I am curious if any serious study was done on whether that is how he was perceived as ( ideally before it became socially awkward to state your political affiliation openly ). << Their inner circles knew how rotten they both were, but outside of that they were largely unknown. And that is the other interesting thing. Prior to whatever caused this change of hearts, I only saw impressions of Musk that were similar to impressions of Gates ( you know the ones - saving Africa or something; I know it reads awful, but I really don't remember what his PR presents him as ) - visionary making cameos in odd cultural vignettes ( I think he did one in 'Big Bang Theory' ). The articles describing his work style were very slowly bubbling up. << These things were mostly inclined to stay in the background until Musk elbowed his way into the spotlight. And became too much of a power center himself. I will need to sleep on it, but I think I agree with you.
- aegis4244 4y ago
  Dems didn't want to throw him out. Pence was a competent politician. Trump wasn't. They wanted him embarrassed, not out. Much like the Brits had a plan to assassinate Hitler before D day. Choose not to. They were afraid he would be replaced by someone competent.

emodendroket 4y ago

I'll put my cards on the table and say I would have been just as happy to see him fail as anyone else, but it did begin to take on the tenor of the constant, never-came-true stories about how any minute now they were going to spring the trap on Donald Trump and he'd get thrown out of office. e: I did not mean for this to be an invitation for everyone to argue about the merits or demerits of Donald Trump.

throwawaylinux 4y ago
[flagged]
- freshpots 4y ago
  - throwawaylinux 4y ago
    Yes, I've heard it all before. People who were drawn in to the baseless Russiagate conspiracy theory, and all the other ones have said exactly the same thing to me as you are now. Sure, I'm a secular-heretic for wanting to see evidence for extraordinary assertions from people with obvious ulterior motives, rather than taking them on faith. So far, the conspiracy theorists have had a poor track record as far as I can see. That said, I don't engage or try to debate my friends on it, they have always become extremely upset by any debate on such topics. And they're not hurting anybody so my philosophy is just to leave them to their faith. I don't go around challenging people to prove the existence of God whenever they make a religious Facebook post either, I'm not that kind of asshole.
    - astrange 4y ago
      > Yes, I've heard it all before. People who were drawn in to the baseless Russiagate conspiracy theory As you can read in the Republican-written Senate Intelligence Committee report, everything about Russiagate did in fact happen and it was 100% real. (except for the Steele dossier/pee tape) This essentially comes down to Trump realizing that if you say all your crimes in public, nobody will think it's a crime and it won't be reported as one, because you don't "seem like you have something to hide".
      - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
        I might be basically be picking at it with what I am about to say next, but was it not admitted that 'Steele dossier' itself was a rather elaborate disinformation campaign[1] as noted by Fiona Hill? I really don't be want to be this guy, but if we are going to have that kind of discussion here, we might as well discuss current state of knowledge. edit: All this is relevant, because that dossier itself was the basis for 'Russiagate'. I am ok with a rational counter-argument. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steele_dossier#Risk_of_contamination_with_Russian_disinformation_considered https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steele_dossier#Risk_of_contami...
      - throwawaylinux 4y ago
        > As you can read in the Republican-written Senate Intelligence Committee report, everything about Russiagate did in fact happen and it was 100% real. (except for the Steele dossier/pee tape) The conspiracy theory is that Trump colluded or conspired with Putin to hack the election. No evidence to support this has ever been produced. I know that may be difficult to accept, and I ascribe no malice to those who genuinely believe conspiracy theories, they are a powerful psychological trap.
        astrange 4y ago
        When Trump told Russia to release his opponent's emails they'd hacked, and they did release them afterwards on the same day, he got away with it because he just did it in public on stage, and so cynics can't accept it because it's too obvious - it wasn't done on an encrypted Signal chat in a smoky backroom, so it must not be a conspiracy, so it must've been a coincidence. Plus his campaign manager was working for him for free and instead being paid by a GRU agent for their targeting data. You can try denying the Senate/Mueller reports on this, but you should read them, since they do say this.
  - theGnuMe 4y ago
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    Some of our friendships are not based merely on political affiliation. This is not a shot, but please understand that not everyone is automatically looking for a clan and an enemy to bond over ( even though it is not uncommon and perfectly rational thing to do based on our evolutionary path alone ). Not to search very far, me and my coworkers discuss politics ( and we do have somewhat divergent views ). The bubble only exists if one does not talk with other people. In other words, other people being like-minded is not an automatic pre-requisite.
  - dcow 4y ago
    I actually find this fascinating and and am not taking sides. If Jan 6th was literally an attempt to overthrow the government, why hasn’t Trump been convicted of treason? I thought swift action would be taken if the slant in the stories news media have reported is accurate. But more importantly, why can’t you be friends with people who have different politics? Honestly I’m not sure what word best describes a world where everyone has to think the same to get along, but I have to think it’s far from ideal.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Bud 4y ago
      [dead]
  - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    The bubble where the cronies who helped plan it were huddled together in the Willard to watch the show put on by the people they directly interfaced with and who were equipped to breach the building.
A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
I personally have somewhat mixed feelings. I do enjoy a good dumpster fire like any good internet denizen ( and I won't deny that there is an odd level of.. excitement maybe.. that one major social platform may go down ). I have no love for social media as some of my posts may indicate and for a variety of reasons including the amount of oxygen this creation takes and the amount of confusion it causes in general population, it would not be the worst thing ever. That said, the sheer amount of weird emotion attached to this particular billionaire is just perplexing. Only few years ago he could do no wrong. Today, it seems, he is being ganged up on including by some of his biggest internet fans. And media oblige for whatever reason. I dislike billionaires, but I dislike them as a caste in our societies. I don't see Elon as a savior of mankind or the devil, but those emotions that swirl around him are made to make him look like one or the other. Somehow, one is supposed to pick sides. Trump seems to create the same emotions. It is truly fascinating.
- inferiorhuman 4y ago
  I was about to say that you're talking about two different problems. But, no, what's happening to Musk is the same thing that happened to Trump. Their inner circles knew how rotten they both were, but outside of that they were largely unknown. New Yorkers despise trump and have for ages. From tenants, to contractors, to business partners they all know what a shitheel he is. Outside of NY though trump was largely seen as an affable caricature of a rich dude. Case in point: NYC as a whole isn't averse to republicans and yet they still rejected trump in 2016. Elon's the same way. Sure he called that diver a pedophile. But he also had a Tesla employee hounded until he fled the country. Musk had the guy swatted for fucks sake (or tried to at least). Or what about the journalist who pissed him off and ended up having some Tesla features disabled on his car. Or his ex-wife who talked about being treated like an employee. These things were mostly inclined to stay in the background until Musk elbowed his way into the spotlight. Now the whole world can see that he went full on Howard Hughes.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    << Outside of NY though trump was largely seen as an affable caricature of a rich dude. This is a very interesting statement to me. I am trying to recall conversations with my wife's side of the family, who supported Trump ( initially, mostly ) and their impression of him was almost exactly that ( plus, "he is a businessman so he knows the game" or something to that effect ). I am in in Chicagoland, but now I am curious if any serious study was done on whether that is how he was perceived as ( ideally before it became socially awkward to state your political affiliation openly ). << Their inner circles knew how rotten they both were, but outside of that they were largely unknown. And that is the other interesting thing. Prior to whatever caused this change of hearts, I only saw impressions of Musk that were similar to impressions of Gates ( you know the ones - saving Africa or something; I know it reads awful, but I really don't remember what his PR presents him as ) - visionary making cameos in odd cultural vignettes ( I think he did one in 'Big Bang Theory' ). The articles describing his work style were very slowly bubbling up. << These things were mostly inclined to stay in the background until Musk elbowed his way into the spotlight. And became too much of a power center himself. I will need to sleep on it, but I think I agree with you.
aegis4244 4y ago
Dems didn't want to throw him out. Pence was a competent politician. Trump wasn't. They wanted him embarrassed, not out. Much like the Brits had a plan to assassinate Hitler before D day. Choose not to. They were afraid he would be replaced by someone competent.