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Compare and contrast Russian invasion with the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq: https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa1203/4.5.htm https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa

by oa335 4y ago

Compare and contrast Russian invasion with the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq: https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa1203/4.5.htm https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa1203/4.5.htm

ajross 4y ago
Two-decade-stale whataboutism doesn't change anything about the morality of the war in Ukraine or what our response to it should be. There are plenty of bad guys in the world for you to hate. The question should be what are you going to do about it today? Today, it's clear where the bad guys are. Tomorrow it may be different.
- kodyo 4y ago
  - kube-system 4y ago
    I’m sure Ukraine doesn’t feel like it’s fighting a puppet dance. Just because the US has made bad decisions before doesn’t mean that it’s doing a bad thing now, nor does it means that there’s anything wrong with incentives being aligned. All international relations are based on aligned incentives of self interest, not just those of the US.
    - kodyo 4y ago
      - kube-system 4y ago
        It’s not 2014 anymore. If you think that a coup is wrong, then what do you think about a total annexation?
        kodyo 4y ago
        That both are abhorrent but we wouldn’t be where we are today if NATO hadn’t been extending its membership eastwards since the end of the cold war and running arms deals with countries on Russia’s border.
        kube-system 4y ago
        As if the mere thought of Ukraine joining an alliance, which they didn’t even join, is justification to start firing missiles?
        kodyo 4y ago
        What other country were the weapons provided by the Biden and Trump arms deals meant to be aimed at?
        kube-system 4y ago
        Purchasing weapons from competing nations makes them fair game for an invasion? That rationale seems it could be used justify nearly any aggressive war.
- kamaal 4y ago
  >>Today, it's clear where the bad guys are. Tomorrow it may be different. Actually bad guys have been the same. It is hard for people to understand or even stand the fact that their country and their countrymen could be evil. That is pretty much all there is to this. Everybody likes to believe the war they are fighting is for a just cause and will make the world a better place, and they think every other country doing the very same is evil. We should all agree on the fact when we say "War for X reasons is evil" the real issue there is "War", not X which could be {religion, democracy, economic order, ...} But honestly mostly people do if for things like resources, and influence and but like to sell as X. This is why everything you do is ok, but others doing it isn't. There are only finite resources, and this is a race condition.
tomjakubowski 4y ago
Both bad things deserving of condemnation.

by oa335 4y ago

Compare and contrast Russian invasion with the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq: https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa1203/4.5.htm https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa1203/4.5.htm

ajross 4y ago

Two-decade-stale whataboutism doesn't change anything about the morality of the war in Ukraine or what our response to it should be. There are plenty of bad guys in the world for you to hate. The question should be what are you going to do about it today? Today, it's clear where the bad guys are. Tomorrow it may be different.

kodyo 4y ago
- kube-system 4y ago
  I’m sure Ukraine doesn’t feel like it’s fighting a puppet dance. Just because the US has made bad decisions before doesn’t mean that it’s doing a bad thing now, nor does it means that there’s anything wrong with incentives being aligned. All international relations are based on aligned incentives of self interest, not just those of the US.
  - kodyo 4y ago
    - kube-system 4y ago
      It’s not 2014 anymore. If you think that a coup is wrong, then what do you think about a total annexation?
      - kodyo 4y ago
        That both are abhorrent but we wouldn’t be where we are today if NATO hadn’t been extending its membership eastwards since the end of the cold war and running arms deals with countries on Russia’s border.
        kube-system 4y ago
        As if the mere thought of Ukraine joining an alliance, which they didn’t even join, is justification to start firing missiles?
        kodyo 4y ago
        What other country were the weapons provided by the Biden and Trump arms deals meant to be aimed at?
        kube-system 4y ago
        Purchasing weapons from competing nations makes them fair game for an invasion? That rationale seems it could be used justify nearly any aggressive war.
kamaal 4y ago
>>Today, it's clear where the bad guys are. Tomorrow it may be different. Actually bad guys have been the same. It is hard for people to understand or even stand the fact that their country and their countrymen could be evil. That is pretty much all there is to this. Everybody likes to believe the war they are fighting is for a just cause and will make the world a better place, and they think every other country doing the very same is evil. We should all agree on the fact when we say "War for X reasons is evil" the real issue there is "War", not X which could be {religion, democracy, economic order, ...} But honestly mostly people do if for things like resources, and influence and but like to sell as X. This is why everything you do is ok, but others doing it isn't. There are only finite resources, and this is a race condition.

tomjakubowski 4y ago

Both bad things deserving of condemnation.