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I’m glad cooler heads prevailed. A lesson for the rest of us to wait for facts and stop being outraged by everything the press throws at us. That being said, R

I’m glad cooler heads prevailed. A lesson for the rest of us to wait for facts and stop being outraged by everything the press throws at us. That being said, Russia still is shit; and we wouldn’t be in this situation if they weren’t attacking civilian infrastructure in an attempt to freeze Ukrainians to death.

throwawaymedia 4y ago
What Russia is doing is the result of something else. That something else is the root cause of the war in Ukraine.
- int_19h 4y ago
  Yes, that would be the Russian neo-imperial ambitions becoming mainstream. I watched it happening gradually back when I lived in the country - fiction books about war "against Nazis" in Ukraine started showing up in mid-00s, and one first became a hit in 2008.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- maximinus_thrax 4y ago
  I agree with you. The root cause is the complete erosion of civil society in Russia, the failure of the state to create and maintain a democracy and the failure of the West to turn Russia into a North Korea early on, when everyone figured out that the gangsters are actually running the country.
  - throwawaymedia 4y ago
    Why should the West do anything on the opposite side of the globe? Why does the West only care about democracy in the countries with a lot of natural resources? Oh yea, that must be a pure coincidence.
    - piva00 4y ago
      So you don't believe in democracy? What exactly do you believe in, can't really tell because you are a coward hiding behind a façade slinging shit.
ghufran_syed 4y ago
The americans, germans, french and every other country in the world are all “shit” by those standards - they have all done the same and would do the same again if their “national security objectives” required it. Ukraine would do the same to Russia if it could, the reason they aren’t is logistic, not moral. In every war, the propagandists try to promote the view that this war is a “good” or “just” war - they are all wrong, just slightly different in their degree of “wrongness”.
- idontwantthis 4y ago
  Butwhatabout!
- duxup 4y ago
  This war seems pretty a straightforward as far as an unnecessary war of aggression goes. And frankly it seems just as sad to see Russian soldiers throw into the fight to die by their own government.
- elevaet 4y ago
  So what's your point? Should we join hands and welcome Russia to help themselves in Ukraine? This whataboutism around Ukraine is emblematic of the problem with misaligned postmodern thinking. The fact of the matter is that Russia has violently invaded Ukraine and they are trying to bend Ukraine against its will. It's wrong and the world _should_ come to their side. Likewise if the tables were turned.
  - kodyo 4y ago
    Funny thing is that the tables WERE turned, by NATO.
    - piva00 4y ago
      How, exactly?
      - kodyo 4y ago
oa335 4y ago
Compare and contrast Russian invasion with the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq: https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa1203/4.5.htm https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa1203/4.5.htm
- ajross 4y ago
  Two-decade-stale whataboutism doesn't change anything about the morality of the war in Ukraine or what our response to it should be. There are plenty of bad guys in the world for you to hate. The question should be what are you going to do about it today? Today, it's clear where the bad guys are. Tomorrow it may be different.
  - kodyo 4y ago
    - kube-system 4y ago
      I’m sure Ukraine doesn’t feel like it’s fighting a puppet dance. Just because the US has made bad decisions before doesn’t mean that it’s doing a bad thing now, nor does it means that there’s anything wrong with incentives being aligned. All international relations are based on aligned incentives of self interest, not just those of the US.
      - kodyo 4y ago
        kube-system 4y ago
        It’s not 2014 anymore. If you think that a coup is wrong, then what do you think about a total annexation?
        kodyo 4y ago
        That both are abhorrent but we wouldn’t be where we are today if NATO hadn’t been extending its membership eastwards since the end of the cold war and running arms deals with countries on Russia’s border.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

throwawaymedia 4y ago

What Russia is doing is the result of something else. That something else is the root cause of the war in Ukraine.

int_19h 4y ago
Yes, that would be the Russian neo-imperial ambitions becoming mainstream. I watched it happening gradually back when I lived in the country - fiction books about war "against Nazis" in Ukraine started showing up in mid-00s, and one first became a hit in 2008.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
maximinus_thrax 4y ago
I agree with you. The root cause is the complete erosion of civil society in Russia, the failure of the state to create and maintain a democracy and the failure of the West to turn Russia into a North Korea early on, when everyone figured out that the gangsters are actually running the country.
- throwawaymedia 4y ago
  Why should the West do anything on the opposite side of the globe? Why does the West only care about democracy in the countries with a lot of natural resources? Oh yea, that must be a pure coincidence.
  - piva00 4y ago
    So you don't believe in democracy? What exactly do you believe in, can't really tell because you are a coward hiding behind a façade slinging shit.

ghufran_syed 4y ago

The americans, germans, french and every other country in the world are all “shit” by those standards - they have all done the same and would do the same again if their “national security objectives” required it. Ukraine would do the same to Russia if it could, the reason they aren’t is logistic, not moral. In every war, the propagandists try to promote the view that this war is a “good” or “just” war - they are all wrong, just slightly different in their degree of “wrongness”.

idontwantthis 4y ago
Butwhatabout!
duxup 4y ago
This war seems pretty a straightforward as far as an unnecessary war of aggression goes. And frankly it seems just as sad to see Russian soldiers throw into the fight to die by their own government.
elevaet 4y ago
So what's your point? Should we join hands and welcome Russia to help themselves in Ukraine? This whataboutism around Ukraine is emblematic of the problem with misaligned postmodern thinking. The fact of the matter is that Russia has violently invaded Ukraine and they are trying to bend Ukraine against its will. It's wrong and the world _should_ come to their side. Likewise if the tables were turned.
- kodyo 4y ago
  Funny thing is that the tables WERE turned, by NATO.
  - piva00 4y ago
    How, exactly?
    - kodyo 4y ago

oa335 4y ago

Compare and contrast Russian invasion with the 2003 U.S. invasion of Iraq: https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa1203/4.5.htm https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa1203/4.5.htm

ajross 4y ago
Two-decade-stale whataboutism doesn't change anything about the morality of the war in Ukraine or what our response to it should be. There are plenty of bad guys in the world for you to hate. The question should be what are you going to do about it today? Today, it's clear where the bad guys are. Tomorrow it may be different.
- kodyo 4y ago
  - kube-system 4y ago
    I’m sure Ukraine doesn’t feel like it’s fighting a puppet dance. Just because the US has made bad decisions before doesn’t mean that it’s doing a bad thing now, nor does it means that there’s anything wrong with incentives being aligned. All international relations are based on aligned incentives of self interest, not just those of the US.
    - kodyo 4y ago
      - kube-system 4y ago
        It’s not 2014 anymore. If you think that a coup is wrong, then what do you think about a total annexation?
        kodyo 4y ago
        That both are abhorrent but we wouldn’t be where we are today if NATO hadn’t been extending its membership eastwards since the end of the cold war and running arms deals with countries on Russia’s border.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]