3 ms·

Could you use those in sentences to indicate where you think the ambiguity is?

by ss108 4y ago

Apocryphon 4y ago
While it is not incorrect to refer to the people as the Spanish, the proper demonym is Spaniard. But people often use the former to refer to the people/nationality anyway. It also frequently gets into further confusion with related identities such as Hispanic, Latino, etc.
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  > While it is not incorrect to refer to the people as the Spanish, the proper demonym is Spaniard. But people often use the former to refer to the people/nationality anyway. Well, as you note, referring to the people of Spain in general as "the Spanish" is correct. This is an example of a fairly common construction in English: we equally refer to the French, the rich, the wealthy, the poor, the uneducated, the needy.... You appear to believe that referring to the people of Spain as "the Spaniards" would be even more correct, which suggests you're not a native speaker of English. That is not correct; if you say "the Spaniards", the only response you'll get will be "which Spaniards?", unless a particular set of Spaniards is suggested by context, in which case you'll be referring to them without including the rest of Spain.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    I am willing to concede that I might be overthinking situations where "Spaniards" should be used instead of "the Spanish." Perhaps I was premature in citing a half-remembered verbal tic without having an actual example handy. But there is neither need to be presumptuous nor offensive, nor officious, in your attempts to grasp at my meaning. Amusingly enough, in the process of trying to find an erroneous misuse of the terms, and striving in vain, I stumbled upon this article, which is about the complexity of "Spanish" as a transatlantic identity, when it conflates Latin American hispanics with actual immigrant Spaniards: > The most common adaptation my interviewees reported to deal with the automatic association of Spain with Latin America was for them to disassociate from using the term Spanish as their primary identifier with Anglo-Americans. Rather as Susana, a 25-year-old ESL student, quite vividly noted they had to actively try to reinforce their geographic connection to Europe: > Susana: >“I’m not Spanish, I’m from Spain.” I always say that. In fact, I say “I’m from Es-pain” because I cannot say the [English] “s.” And they say “Olé” and laugh. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2332649218766388 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/23326492187663... Though that, of course, is a different issue altogether! Edit: After having a think, I'd say that there have been instances where in actual conversation I've heard individual Spanish people referred to as "a Spanish" rather than "a Spaniard." Which, of course, is wrong. It does feel like the word Spaniard has a rather historical, almost literary, sheen, so you don't hear it used in everyday conversation often. And so colloquially speaking, people are more likely to default to incorrect uses of Spanish as a noun. But that might be a misconception I've picked up, I freely admit.
    - ss108 4y ago
      My assumption from your initial comment was also that you were not a native English speaker.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - Apocryphon 4y ago
        'twas merely an act

Could you use those in sentences to indicate where you think the ambiguity is?

by ss108 4y ago

Could you use those in sentences to indicate where you think the ambiguity is?

While it is not incorrect to refer to the people as the Spanish, the proper demonym is Spaniard. But people often use the former to refer to the people/nationality anyway. It also frequently gets into further confusion with related identities such as Hispanic, Latino, etc.

thaumasiotes 4y ago
> While it is not incorrect to refer to the people as the Spanish, the proper demonym is Spaniard. But people often use the former to refer to the people/nationality anyway. Well, as you note, referring to the people of Spain in general as "the Spanish" is correct. This is an example of a fairly common construction in English: we equally refer to the French, the rich, the wealthy, the poor, the uneducated, the needy.... You appear to believe that referring to the people of Spain as "the Spaniards" would be even more correct, which suggests you're not a native speaker of English. That is not correct; if you say "the Spaniards", the only response you'll get will be "which Spaniards?", unless a particular set of Spaniards is suggested by context, in which case you'll be referring to them without including the rest of Spain.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  I am willing to concede that I might be overthinking situations where "Spaniards" should be used instead of "the Spanish." Perhaps I was premature in citing a half-remembered verbal tic without having an actual example handy. But there is neither need to be presumptuous nor offensive, nor officious, in your attempts to grasp at my meaning. Amusingly enough, in the process of trying to find an erroneous misuse of the terms, and striving in vain, I stumbled upon this article, which is about the complexity of "Spanish" as a transatlantic identity, when it conflates Latin American hispanics with actual immigrant Spaniards: > The most common adaptation my interviewees reported to deal with the automatic association of Spain with Latin America was for them to disassociate from using the term Spanish as their primary identifier with Anglo-Americans. Rather as Susana, a 25-year-old ESL student, quite vividly noted they had to actively try to reinforce their geographic connection to Europe: > Susana: >“I’m not Spanish, I’m from Spain.” I always say that. In fact, I say “I’m from Es-pain” because I cannot say the [English] “s.” And they say “Olé” and laugh. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/2332649218766388 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/23326492187663... Though that, of course, is a different issue altogether! Edit: After having a think, I'd say that there have been instances where in actual conversation I've heard individual Spanish people referred to as "a Spanish" rather than "a Spaniard." Which, of course, is wrong. It does feel like the word Spaniard has a rather historical, almost literary, sheen, so you don't hear it used in everyday conversation often. And so colloquially speaking, people are more likely to default to incorrect uses of Spanish as a noun. But that might be a misconception I've picked up, I freely admit.
  - ss108 4y ago
    My assumption from your initial comment was also that you were not a native English speaker.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - Apocryphon 4y ago
      'twas merely an act