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> the original fast food was hot dogs and that's almost entirely gone now. Curious about this history. According to Wikipedia, fast food was common during anti

> the original fast food was hot dogs and that's almost entirely gone now. Curious about this history. According to Wikipedia, fast food was common during antiquity, while the hotdog wasn't invented until the 1400s. White Castle seems to be recognized as the origin of modern day fast food and it opened as a hamburger joint.

bombcar 4y ago
Fair enough, maybe not the originallest, but some of the now hamburger chains started out as hot dog chains, of which there's one? left IIRC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl%27s_Jr.#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl%27s_Jr.#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_dog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_dog
- randomdata 4y ago
  Isn't present day Carl's Jr. just Hardee's by another name? Hardee's began as a burger joint as well. According to research from the University of Guelph, hotdogs are comparatively uncommon in fast food because hotdogs are harder to cook consistently and have a shorter window of enjoyability which makes them less suited to fast food than hamburgers.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > Isn’t present day Carl’s Jr. just Hardee’s by another name? The corporate parent of Carl’s Jr. bought Hardee’s in 1997, but Carl’s stayed pretty much the same.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 4y ago
    I think Hardee’s and Carl’s Jr. were bought by the same company and then evolved towards each other.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Carl's Jr was 'transferred' to CKE (Carl Karcher Enterprises) which then acquired Hardees, and Hardees became Carl's Jr in everything but name (as far as I can tell). What was interesting is the absolute numbers: The "merger" created a chain of 3,828 restaurants – 3,152 Hardee's outlets in 40 states and 10 foreign countries and 676 Carl's Jr. outlets primarily in California.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Yeah, I was thinking of the ubiquity of "street food hot dogs" which are now basically gone (Costco still has hot dogs, however, and baseball stadiums are required to have hot dogs).
    - jacobr1 4y ago
      How much of that is health code enforcement rather than demand?
      - bombcar 4y ago
        That’s just it - health code enforcement got better and now you can’t feed people sawdust and rat.
    - selimthegrim 4y ago
      Lucky Dog in New Orleans would like a word.
Retric 4y ago
In antiquity it was more what we might call street food or fast casual. What really defines fast food is mass production and uniformity.
- thih9 4y ago
  The english wikipedia [1] agrees with you. Interestingly, I always assumed that “fast food” meant the type of food; so a hamburger, even if not made from mass produced ingredients, would always be a “fast food”. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_food https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_food
  - bombcar 4y ago
    It’s a weird thing - people in the USA know what you mean by fast food and somehow McDonald’s under a heat lamp counts (rarer now but still found) but burgers at the gas station under a heat lamp don’t count.
- randomdata 4y ago
  > In antiquity it was more what we might call street food In context, though, the original commenter considered things like street hotdog vendors to be fast food. That is not unlike the kind of delivery you would find in antiquity, even if the actual food product differed. > What really defines fast food is mass production and uniformity. Technically, what really defines a term is how it is used in a certain context and how it works towards reaching a shared understanding, which was achieved with the original use of fast food found in this thread. You are right that the definition that emerged here does not align with definitions found in other contexts, but those other contexts are irrelevant to this particular context.
  - Retric 4y ago
    From this post I assumed they agreed with me: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33705493 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33705493 > It’s a weird thing - people in the USA know what you mean by fast food and somehow McDonald’s under a heat lamp counts (rarer now but still found) but burgers at the gas station under a heat lamp don’t count.
jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
White Castle essentially formalized a prior trend of burger vendors at sporting events, state fairs, etc. These were really simple cheap meaty snacks with little more than the patty and maybe some onions cooked on a griddle and slapped on whatever roll they could get from a local baker. In that sense the WC slider is still fairly true to the original thing. But, I think it's a bit rich to call it the origin of fast food. Modern fast food in terms of what we think of as technology and business model is a bit broader than that. And just "food you get fast" is obviously far older. The original "fast food" in that sense was getting bread from a baker.
- randomdata 4y ago
  > But, I think it's a bit rich to call it the origin of fast food. Particularly when we just got finished talking about fast food in antiquity. I suppose that explains why nobody said such a thing.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
    I made a specific response then expanded to a general point. What point does your comment make other than bickering?
    - randomdata 4y ago
      Why would there be a point? If there was a point it would be presented to the real world where it would provide value, not a meaningless text box on a website made to provide entertainment. What is to be gained from looking for something that doesn't exist?

bombcar 4y ago

Fair enough, maybe not the originallest, but some of the now hamburger chains started out as hot dog chains, of which there's one? left IIRC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl%27s_Jr.#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl%27s_Jr.#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_dog https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_dog

randomdata 4y ago
Isn't present day Carl's Jr. just Hardee's by another name? Hardee's began as a burger joint as well. According to research from the University of Guelph, hotdogs are comparatively uncommon in fast food because hotdogs are harder to cook consistently and have a shorter window of enjoyability which makes them less suited to fast food than hamburgers.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Isn’t present day Carl’s Jr. just Hardee’s by another name? The corporate parent of Carl’s Jr. bought Hardee’s in 1997, but Carl’s stayed pretty much the same.
- fiddlerwoaroof 4y ago
  I think Hardee’s and Carl’s Jr. were bought by the same company and then evolved towards each other.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Carl's Jr was 'transferred' to CKE (Carl Karcher Enterprises) which then acquired Hardees, and Hardees became Carl's Jr in everything but name (as far as I can tell). What was interesting is the absolute numbers: The "merger" created a chain of 3,828 restaurants – 3,152 Hardee's outlets in 40 states and 10 foreign countries and 676 Carl's Jr. outlets primarily in California.
- bombcar 4y ago
  Yeah, I was thinking of the ubiquity of "street food hot dogs" which are now basically gone (Costco still has hot dogs, however, and baseball stadiums are required to have hot dogs).
  - jacobr1 4y ago
    How much of that is health code enforcement rather than demand?
    - bombcar 4y ago
      That’s just it - health code enforcement got better and now you can’t feed people sawdust and rat.
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    Lucky Dog in New Orleans would like a word.

Retric 4y ago

In antiquity it was more what we might call street food or fast casual. What really defines fast food is mass production and uniformity.

thih9 4y ago
The english wikipedia [1] agrees with you. Interestingly, I always assumed that “fast food” meant the type of food; so a hamburger, even if not made from mass produced ingredients, would always be a “fast food”. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_food https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_food
- bombcar 4y ago
  It’s a weird thing - people in the USA know what you mean by fast food and somehow McDonald’s under a heat lamp counts (rarer now but still found) but burgers at the gas station under a heat lamp don’t count.
randomdata 4y ago
> In antiquity it was more what we might call street food In context, though, the original commenter considered things like street hotdog vendors to be fast food. That is not unlike the kind of delivery you would find in antiquity, even if the actual food product differed. > What really defines fast food is mass production and uniformity. Technically, what really defines a term is how it is used in a certain context and how it works towards reaching a shared understanding, which was achieved with the original use of fast food found in this thread. You are right that the definition that emerged here does not align with definitions found in other contexts, but those other contexts are irrelevant to this particular context.
- Retric 4y ago
  From this post I assumed they agreed with me: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33705493 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33705493 > It’s a weird thing - people in the USA know what you mean by fast food and somehow McDonald’s under a heat lamp counts (rarer now but still found) but burgers at the gas station under a heat lamp don’t count.

jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago

White Castle essentially formalized a prior trend of burger vendors at sporting events, state fairs, etc. These were really simple cheap meaty snacks with little more than the patty and maybe some onions cooked on a griddle and slapped on whatever roll they could get from a local baker. In that sense the WC slider is still fairly true to the original thing. But, I think it's a bit rich to call it the origin of fast food. Modern fast food in terms of what we think of as technology and business model is a bit broader than that. And just "food you get fast" is obviously far older. The original "fast food" in that sense was getting bread from a baker.

randomdata 4y ago
> But, I think it's a bit rich to call it the origin of fast food. Particularly when we just got finished talking about fast food in antiquity. I suppose that explains why nobody said such a thing.
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
  I made a specific response then expanded to a general point. What point does your comment make other than bickering?
  - randomdata 4y ago
    Why would there be a point? If there was a point it would be presented to the real world where it would provide value, not a meaningless text box on a website made to provide entertainment. What is to be gained from looking for something that doesn't exist?