4 ms·

IMO this is a gross generalization and exaggeration. Sure some abuse occurs in H1b, but it has also been the path of entry for many immigrants. While I am not c

IMO this is a gross generalization and exaggeration. Sure some abuse occurs in H1b, but it has also been the path of entry for many immigrants. While I am not certain, I believe Nadella, Pichai, Musk, and many others came in via the h1b. Over 50% of companies founded in SV have a founder who is foreign born. To just blithely dismiss the positives because of your own naked self-interest. ("suppress tech worker wages"). FYI US tech workers are among the highest paid occupations in the nation, and there is full tech worker employment, your claims have no basis I am afraid.

htkibar 4y ago
Just dumping my thoughts on the topic in general; H1B is quite problematic in its design for sure, a sensible approach would be to determine the need for a certain job group / skill set and give people relatively long residence permits (i.e. 5 years) to come and build a life with the option to naturalise at the end. A skilled worker won’t change professions usually as that is a huge undertaking. Instead you have company controlled visa structures where market swings can result in quite a bit of losses. Almost anything can be seen as wage suppression, however creating a healthy market for both parties is much more important than some people significantly earning more at the expense of unfulfilled need.
tristor 4y ago
> Sure some abuse occurs in H1b, but it has also been the path of entry for many immigrants. You are not even remotely addressing the concerns of the person you are replying to. Saying the program is a "path of entry for many immigrants" while true doesn't in any case obviate the fraud, in fact it's true even in cases of fraud, it's a tautology. There are ENTIRE multi-billion dollar businesses that are entirely based on immigration fraud. This last fiscal year TCS alone made nearly $5B in profit on more than $25B in revenue, and their entire business model is based on immigration fraud. The entire WITCH segment (Wipro, Infosys, TCS, Cognizant, HCL) are structured to enable, support, and advance immigration fraud for profit. > US tech workers are among the highest paid occupations in the nation This does not obviate wage suppression, it's merely a testament to the real value of technology. It's been litigated and proven beyond doubt that SV companies engaged in wage-fixing, including FAANGs like Apple and Google, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L... This type of behavior was a concerted effort that is provable that was taken to suppress tech worker wages. Immigration fraud is also a pathway to do so.
- bobosha 4y ago
  You speak of this as if this is the only case of fraud/misrepresentation in any government program. Surely you are not saying every "American Programmer" <wink> <wink> has been fraud free, or no American Company has ever broken the law. The "WITCH" group as you call them is no better/worse than most other businesses. Your emotional straw-manned attack speaks volumes about your own entitlement arrogance and naked self-interest, dare-i-say greed. I am a business owner that employs h1bs, we pay them on par with US hires - and we pay top dollar because of our specialized skill needs. Also I think the fraud is in people like you and your entitlement arrogance, with fantasies of running a "American Programmer" cartel. Sorry businesses are not going to kneel to your shakedown racket: "pay me whatever-i-ask or else..." Finally - this is crying out loud for some whataboutism - h1b fraud P-A-L-E-S in comparison to fraud in SS/Medicare/Medicaid/... many, many other government programs. For people like you to get on a high horse and yell "fraud" because of some cases of visa abuse, are really about your own greed. Such smug holier-than-thou absolutist sanctimony among people on your side of the argument prevents meaningful h1b reform such as better filtering (salary-based) mechanism, which I think many in business would back as well to reduce fraud.
bombolo 4y ago
but musk was a millionaire… it's different if you can buy out the entire company sponsoring you
- notch656a 4y ago
  AFAIK US has a visa scheme where you can invest something like $1M and get an investor visa. Pretty common to see immigrants that come to the US and buy up some gas station or other fairly turn-key business to take advantage of this. You don't have to buy a company and then have the company sponsor you if you do it that way AFAIK. If you have a few hundo' thou' you can get an investor visa that leads toward residency about anywhere, and only a few places like America are more than that.

htkibar 4y ago

Just dumping my thoughts on the topic in general; H1B is quite problematic in its design for sure, a sensible approach would be to determine the need for a certain job group / skill set and give people relatively long residence permits (i.e. 5 years) to come and build a life with the option to naturalise at the end. A skilled worker won’t change professions usually as that is a huge undertaking. Instead you have company controlled visa structures where market swings can result in quite a bit of losses. Almost anything can be seen as wage suppression, however creating a healthy market for both parties is much more important than some people significantly earning more at the expense of unfulfilled need.

tristor 4y ago

> Sure some abuse occurs in H1b, but it has also been the path of entry for many immigrants. You are not even remotely addressing the concerns of the person you are replying to. Saying the program is a "path of entry for many immigrants" while true doesn't in any case obviate the fraud, in fact it's true even in cases of fraud, it's a tautology. There are ENTIRE multi-billion dollar businesses that are entirely based on immigration fraud. This last fiscal year TCS alone made nearly $5B in profit on more than $25B in revenue, and their entire business model is based on immigration fraud. The entire WITCH segment (Wipro, Infosys, TCS, Cognizant, HCL) are structured to enable, support, and advance immigration fraud for profit. > US tech workers are among the highest paid occupations in the nation This does not obviate wage suppression, it's merely a testament to the real value of technology. It's been litigated and proven beyond doubt that SV companies engaged in wage-fixing, including FAANGs like Apple and Google, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L... This type of behavior was a concerted effort that is provable that was taken to suppress tech worker wages. Immigration fraud is also a pathway to do so.

bobosha 4y ago
You speak of this as if this is the only case of fraud/misrepresentation in any government program. Surely you are not saying every "American Programmer" <wink> <wink> has been fraud free, or no American Company has ever broken the law. The "WITCH" group as you call them is no better/worse than most other businesses. Your emotional straw-manned attack speaks volumes about your own entitlement arrogance and naked self-interest, dare-i-say greed. I am a business owner that employs h1bs, we pay them on par with US hires - and we pay top dollar because of our specialized skill needs. Also I think the fraud is in people like you and your entitlement arrogance, with fantasies of running a "American Programmer" cartel. Sorry businesses are not going to kneel to your shakedown racket: "pay me whatever-i-ask or else..." Finally - this is crying out loud for some whataboutism - h1b fraud P-A-L-E-S in comparison to fraud in SS/Medicare/Medicaid/... many, many other government programs. For people like you to get on a high horse and yell "fraud" because of some cases of visa abuse, are really about your own greed. Such smug holier-than-thou absolutist sanctimony among people on your side of the argument prevents meaningful h1b reform such as better filtering (salary-based) mechanism, which I think many in business would back as well to reduce fraud.

bombolo 4y ago

but musk was a millionaire… it's different if you can buy out the entire company sponsoring you

notch656a 4y ago
AFAIK US has a visa scheme where you can invest something like $1M and get an investor visa. Pretty common to see immigrants that come to the US and buy up some gas station or other fairly turn-key business to take advantage of this. You don't have to buy a company and then have the company sponsor you if you do it that way AFAIK. If you have a few hundo' thou' you can get an investor visa that leads toward residency about anywhere, and only a few places like America are more than that.