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The thing is, wine "quality" is entirely subjective. I've not found much correlation between price and whether I will like it or not. The only safe bet is tha

The thing is, wine "quality" is entirely subjective. I've not found much correlation between price and whether I will like it or not. The only safe bet is that if it tastes too strongly of vinegar, probably people won't like it as much. But some European wines (Spain and Italy) intentionally produce wine with a non-negligible amount of vinegar taste. I know of a single maker that only puts out wines that I consider good or at least okay: Heitz. Heitz is pricey though, and a $6 bottle of Barefoot or Charles Shaw two buck chuck can be just as good or better than a huge assortment of $50 or $300 bottles of swill. In my experience.

namdnay 4y ago
> wine quality is entirely subjective I wouldn’t go that far… there are many wines that everyone agrees are foul. La Villageoise for example? There’s a reason it’s 2E/L 6USD is what, 5.80E a bottle? That’s already a lot more comfortable
fullshark 4y ago
I'd be shocked if you thought there's was actually no correlation if you're thinking of a price range from $5 to $100+. The worst wines by far I've had have been the ultra cheap stuff. Once you get above like $20 or whatever your personal threshold is though the variance is much smaller in terms of quality I'd say.
- metadat 4y ago
  You do make a good point; the worst of the worst tend to be the ultra cheapies. With that said, there are unbounded arrays of cheap and expensive selections that all taste like shit (again, in my opinion - others likely perceive them differently). I've met plenty of people who happily drink something I consider 100% not palatable or suitable for human consumption.
  - fullshark 4y ago
    Yeah bad (as in unappealing to my palate) expensive wines are bad in an entirely different unique, "expensive tasting" way.
sbf501 4y ago
> The thing is, wine quality is entirely subjective. The article says it isn't. And I agree. Go buy a two-buck chuck at Trader Joe's, and a $50 Chateauneuf de Pape from 2018. One is an acrid, acidic fruit punch, the other is a balanced soft tannin delight. I guarantee your palette can tell the difference, or your money back. :)
- metadat 4y ago
  Agreed, they have different qualities. Still, characteristics don't automatically translate to people preferring the expensive one because it's "better", it's only "different". Individual taste preferences introduce a high degree of variance.
  - sbf501 4y ago
    Of course, some people love velveeta. But if that's all you've ever had... I thought the smiley face on my comment was a dead giveaway.
- radicaldreamer 4y ago
  The chuck is the "delight"
  - sbf501 4y ago
    When I want the cool refreshing taste of fruity vinegar I buy this: https://www.amazon.com/Pok-Som-Drinking-Vinegar-5x4-Oz/dp/B076CSXHZV https://www.amazon.com/Pok-Som-Drinking-Vinegar-5x4-Oz/dp/B0... Fight me. :)
csa 4y ago
> a $6 bottle of Barefoot can be just as good or better than $50 or $300 bottles of swill As someone who has blind tasted many wines… - I can see not being able to tell a difference between $50 bottles and $300 bottles, and even preferring the less expensive option. Some of the tastes can be very subtle, and sometimes the more expensive wines need to be cellared before they really start to shine. - I honestly don’t think I have ever had a $50 plus bottle of wine that I would not have preferred over Barefoot, which has approximately zero taste markers of a wine made to taste good. - There are inexpensive wines (sub-$8) that can hold their own versus $20-30 bottles, but that almost always involves generous use of oak chips and an audience that doesn’t mind the imbalanced flavor profile. Most people don’t mind the imbalance, especially since the wines are usually inexpensive, high alcohol, and taste better than wine at a similar price point. - Folks who can’t differentiate wine taste may be “non-tasters”. I dislike this term of art, but it’s folks who have fewer taste buds per unit area of their tongue. Tell-tale signs are people who salt everything and/or use hot sauce to an extreme level. - For folks on a budget who want to drink decent wine, Trader Joe’s Reserve wines ~$10 a bottle) punch way above their weight. These are basically $20-30 retail bottles of wine that needed to be cleared at the winery cellars quickly to make space for a new vintage. “Shiners” is the term of art for these bottles pre-labeling.
- jb_s 4y ago
  Not speaking for everyone but I'm pretty sure a lot of people who love extreme hot sauces, it's not so much the flavour but that they just want to feel something for once :o
- 2devnull 4y ago
  “honestly don’t think I have ever had a $50 plus bottle of wine that I would not have preferred over Barefoot, which has approximately zero taste markers of a wine made to taste good.” I can’t believe that. I’ve never had barefoot and probably never will but there’s a lot of totally undrinkable, maybe even semi-poisonous, expensive wine. It’s not even rare. If you buy from a good merchant this is less of a problem but still, expensive wines go bad, and some were never good to begin with.
  - 4y ago
13415 4y ago
Anything related to taste and smell is partly subjective, partly intersubjective. The sense of smell varies from person to person due to genetic differences, different learned tastes, partial anosmia, etc. This is also the reason why one like a perfume and another one hates it. The chromatograph can analyze a substance objectively but every nose smells it a bit differently.
jasmer 4y ago
Yea I think probably most people can tell the difference between $6, $20 and $50 and then struggle beyond that (and beyond that it is very subjective). But for 'crap' 'ok' and 'good' and 'good+' categories I think it's actually fairly straight forward.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

namdnay 4y ago

> wine quality is entirely subjective I wouldn’t go that far… there are many wines that everyone agrees are foul. La Villageoise for example? There’s a reason it’s 2E/L 6USD is what, 5.80E a bottle? That’s already a lot more comfortable

fullshark 4y ago

I'd be shocked if you thought there's was actually no correlation if you're thinking of a price range from $5 to $100+. The worst wines by far I've had have been the ultra cheap stuff. Once you get above like $20 or whatever your personal threshold is though the variance is much smaller in terms of quality I'd say.

metadat 4y ago
You do make a good point; the worst of the worst tend to be the ultra cheapies. With that said, there are unbounded arrays of cheap and expensive selections that all taste like shit (again, in my opinion - others likely perceive them differently). I've met plenty of people who happily drink something I consider 100% not palatable or suitable for human consumption.
- fullshark 4y ago
  Yeah bad (as in unappealing to my palate) expensive wines are bad in an entirely different unique, "expensive tasting" way.

sbf501 4y ago

> The thing is, wine quality is entirely subjective. The article says it isn't. And I agree. Go buy a two-buck chuck at Trader Joe's, and a $50 Chateauneuf de Pape from 2018. One is an acrid, acidic fruit punch, the other is a balanced soft tannin delight. I guarantee your palette can tell the difference, or your money back. :)

metadat 4y ago
Agreed, they have different qualities. Still, characteristics don't automatically translate to people preferring the expensive one because it's "better", it's only "different". Individual taste preferences introduce a high degree of variance.
- sbf501 4y ago
  Of course, some people love velveeta. But if that's all you've ever had... I thought the smiley face on my comment was a dead giveaway.
radicaldreamer 4y ago
The chuck is the "delight"
- sbf501 4y ago
  When I want the cool refreshing taste of fruity vinegar I buy this: https://www.amazon.com/Pok-Som-Drinking-Vinegar-5x4-Oz/dp/B076CSXHZV https://www.amazon.com/Pok-Som-Drinking-Vinegar-5x4-Oz/dp/B0... Fight me. :)

csa 4y ago

> a $6 bottle of Barefoot can be just as good or better than $50 or $300 bottles of swill As someone who has blind tasted many wines… - I can see not being able to tell a difference between $50 bottles and $300 bottles, and even preferring the less expensive option. Some of the tastes can be very subtle, and sometimes the more expensive wines need to be cellared before they really start to shine. - I honestly don’t think I have ever had a $50 plus bottle of wine that I would not have preferred over Barefoot, which has approximately zero taste markers of a wine made to taste good. - There are inexpensive wines (sub-$8) that can hold their own versus $20-30 bottles, but that almost always involves generous use of oak chips and an audience that doesn’t mind the imbalanced flavor profile. Most people don’t mind the imbalance, especially since the wines are usually inexpensive, high alcohol, and taste better than wine at a similar price point. - Folks who can’t differentiate wine taste may be “non-tasters”. I dislike this term of art, but it’s folks who have fewer taste buds per unit area of their tongue. Tell-tale signs are people who salt everything and/or use hot sauce to an extreme level. - For folks on a budget who want to drink decent wine, Trader Joe’s Reserve wines ~$10 a bottle) punch way above their weight. These are basically $20-30 retail bottles of wine that needed to be cleared at the winery cellars quickly to make space for a new vintage. “Shiners” is the term of art for these bottles pre-labeling.

jb_s 4y ago
Not speaking for everyone but I'm pretty sure a lot of people who love extreme hot sauces, it's not so much the flavour but that they just want to feel something for once :o
2devnull 4y ago
“honestly don’t think I have ever had a $50 plus bottle of wine that I would not have preferred over Barefoot, which has approximately zero taste markers of a wine made to taste good.” I can’t believe that. I’ve never had barefoot and probably never will but there’s a lot of totally undrinkable, maybe even semi-poisonous, expensive wine. It’s not even rare. If you buy from a good merchant this is less of a problem but still, expensive wines go bad, and some were never good to begin with.
- 4y ago

13415 4y ago

Anything related to taste and smell is partly subjective, partly intersubjective. The sense of smell varies from person to person due to genetic differences, different learned tastes, partial anosmia, etc. This is also the reason why one like a perfume and another one hates it. The chromatograph can analyze a substance objectively but every nose smells it a bit differently.

jasmer 4y ago

Yea I think probably most people can tell the difference between $6, $20 and $50 and then struggle beyond that (and beyond that it is very subjective). But for 'crap' 'ok' and 'good' and 'good+' categories I think it's actually fairly straight forward.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]