7 ms·

Hoping this is helpful for some of the folks affected: https://www.bridge.legal/resources/free-legal-services-for-layoffs https://www.bridge.legal/resources/fre

Hoping this is helpful for some of the folks affected: https://www.bridge.legal/resources/free-legal-services-for-layoffs https://www.bridge.legal/resources/free-legal-services-for-l...

mechanical_bear 4y ago
Are you trying to suppress wages for citizen tech workers? This is how you suppress wages for citizen tech workers.
- quacked 4y ago
  It's no use. I agree with you, but most of the people who want to help H-1Bs see it as reductive and archaic to try and promote the welfare of your own citizens over that of foreigners.
  - dahdum 4y ago
    It's promoting the welfare of a certain very privileged class of citizens, of which you belong, at the expense of overall American interests.
    - quacked 4y ago
      I'm not sure what you mean.
  - ben0x539 4y ago
    As a foreigner, I find myself forced to agree with those people.
    - quacked 4y ago
      Everyone is a foreigner under most frames of reference.
  - SideQuark 4y ago
    >promote the welfare of your own citizens over that of foreigners Isolationist countries end up with poorer people, in the same way if you made an isolationist state, county, city, or household, would simply end up making you poorer. It's a shame more people don't read economics widely enough to understand this.
    - quacked 4y ago
      An "isolationist country" and a "country that ensures that its natural-born citizens are well-provided for before admitting new labor that will compete harder for lower rewards" are not necessarily the same thing.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      Do they? The Scandinavian countries have almost no skilled immigration, and had very little unskilled immigration until recently. Sweden still seems like a pretty great place to live.
      - thrown_22 4y ago
        dang 4y ago
        We've banned this account for posting flamewar comments and ignoring our requests to stop. Please don't create accounts to do that with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - SideQuark 4y ago
        Average results over all valid candidates. Picking a best case example from many valid candidates is as fallacious as picking a worst case example. Sweden also has a PPP adjusted median disposable income over 30% lower than in the US [1]. I'd prefer to live here. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income
- alvarezbjm-hn 4y ago
  This is a service to facilitate H1B sponsorship "Lowering America Citizen Wages" is a problem with American Companies paying less to foreigners, not with foreigners being available for hire. The comment is xenophobic
  - euos 4y ago
    As ex-H1 immigrant I will dare to explain. Companies are paying absolute minimum they can. It is only rational. The problem is with expectations. A lot of H1 workers are used to a much lower quality of life than native workers. US graduate would want to have a 40 hour work-week, separate bedroom, 401k and such. For a foreign worker from a less reach region 401k and medical are not a requirement, sharing a bedroom with 3 other guys is not an issue. Working round a clock is fine as long as you can send money to your family back in the old country. Oh, also in US you can afford a car that will make you look super-successful on social media. Do you really want to drive down quality of life for everybody.
    - throwaway_9_7_5 4y ago
      The majority of H-1 workers (in my experience as a former H-1 worker) went to university in the US and then transition to H-1B. They have the same salary expectations as their American peers and get the same offers. Maybe this salary injustice exists for H-1Bs being hired from abroad, but it doesn't exist initially for most H-1Bs when entering the job market. Of course 2 years into the job is a different story because H-1Bs have less negotiation power to seek out other jobs and get good retention offers etc
      - euos 4y ago
        I would seriously doubt that most H1 workers come from US colleges. It is a common knowledge that most H1s go to Tata/Infosys and friends. Also, I would wonder: 1. How much of those foreign graduates went to college solely for a visa. 2. I would also expect that those graduates have much lower expectations from the life style. Young men don't really need a lot of money and have a lot of time to spend at work.
- bergenty 4y ago
  It’s a balance between siphoning brain away from the rest of the world and maintaining decent wages. Wages for developers are definitely not low, and that’s the truth.
- dahdum 4y ago
  It's a net gain for America to have more skilled tech workers. If that means slightly lower wages for everyone, so be it. Given the number of large tech companies founded by immigrants, I'm not certain wage suppression is a given anyway. I feel the same way about doctors and other highly paid skilled professions, and immigration as a whole.
  - thrown_22 4y ago
    The benefits are split $200,000 for faang and -$150,000 the rest of the country though.
- SideQuark 4y ago
  Conversely, if the sector grows, it may well be that all workers in it make more. This has been the trend in many, many high tech scenarios. Or, we can let the skilled workers end up elsewhere, those places develop the next innovations, and soon the high paying jobs are not here, but have moved to those places willing to invest in talent. The main reason the US has such high salaries is not that we stopped skilled workers coming here - around 50% of Fortune 500 companies were started here by imiigrants. I, as a US citizen, want the world's best and brightest to come here, so I can learn, have to compete, and become part of improving tech sectors, not backwater xenophobic countries banning workers. It's historically extremely shortsighted to think that having to compete solely makes wages lower. If that were true, we'd all have lower wages than our ancestors, which is demonstrably untrue.
  - UncleEntity 4y ago
    > If that were true, we'd all have lower wages than our ancestors, which is demonstrably untrue. I got a good laugh out of that… Every study I’ve heard about says that relative wages have been steadily decreasing compared to earlier generations. This naturally leads to a lower standard of living which, incidentally, get covered over by technological advances. Not that I blame immigration for this but take issue with the “demonstrably untrue” part. You can prove that my niece making $15/hr in 2022 is higher than her mother making $5/hr in 1987 for essentially the same job but what’s the relative difference?
    - gilbetron 4y ago
      $5 in 1987 is around $13.12 in 2022 dollars.
      - UncleEntity 4y ago
        > $5 in 1987 is around $13.12 in 2022 dollars. Huh, not sure what all these minimum wage workers are complaining about then, that’s like 14% better.
        4y ago
- UncleMeat 4y ago
  Software engineers create jobs for software engineers. The reason why you can make 4x more money in SF than in London is because the entire world flocks to SF to work in software. Those H1B workers are making you money, not costing you money.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

Hoping this is helpful for some of the folks affected: https://www.bridge.legal/resources/free-legal-services-for-layoffs https://www.bridge.legal/resources/free-legal-services-for-l...

mechanical_bear 4y ago

Are you trying to suppress wages for citizen tech workers? This is how you suppress wages for citizen tech workers.

quacked 4y ago
It's no use. I agree with you, but most of the people who want to help H-1Bs see it as reductive and archaic to try and promote the welfare of your own citizens over that of foreigners.
- dahdum 4y ago
  It's promoting the welfare of a certain very privileged class of citizens, of which you belong, at the expense of overall American interests.
  - quacked 4y ago
    I'm not sure what you mean.
- ben0x539 4y ago
  As a foreigner, I find myself forced to agree with those people.
  - quacked 4y ago
    Everyone is a foreigner under most frames of reference.
- SideQuark 4y ago
  >promote the welfare of your own citizens over that of foreigners Isolationist countries end up with poorer people, in the same way if you made an isolationist state, county, city, or household, would simply end up making you poorer. It's a shame more people don't read economics widely enough to understand this.
  - quacked 4y ago
    An "isolationist country" and a "country that ensures that its natural-born citizens are well-provided for before admitting new labor that will compete harder for lower rewards" are not necessarily the same thing.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    Do they? The Scandinavian countries have almost no skilled immigration, and had very little unskilled immigration until recently. Sweden still seems like a pretty great place to live.
    - thrown_22 4y ago
      - dang 4y ago
        We've banned this account for posting flamewar comments and ignoring our requests to stop. Please don't create accounts to do that with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - SideQuark 4y ago
      Average results over all valid candidates. Picking a best case example from many valid candidates is as fallacious as picking a worst case example. Sweden also has a PPP adjusted median disposable income over 30% lower than in the US [1]. I'd prefer to live here. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income
alvarezbjm-hn 4y ago
This is a service to facilitate H1B sponsorship "Lowering America Citizen Wages" is a problem with American Companies paying less to foreigners, not with foreigners being available for hire. The comment is xenophobic
- euos 4y ago
  As ex-H1 immigrant I will dare to explain. Companies are paying absolute minimum they can. It is only rational. The problem is with expectations. A lot of H1 workers are used to a much lower quality of life than native workers. US graduate would want to have a 40 hour work-week, separate bedroom, 401k and such. For a foreign worker from a less reach region 401k and medical are not a requirement, sharing a bedroom with 3 other guys is not an issue. Working round a clock is fine as long as you can send money to your family back in the old country. Oh, also in US you can afford a car that will make you look super-successful on social media. Do you really want to drive down quality of life for everybody.
  - throwaway_9_7_5 4y ago
    The majority of H-1 workers (in my experience as a former H-1 worker) went to university in the US and then transition to H-1B. They have the same salary expectations as their American peers and get the same offers. Maybe this salary injustice exists for H-1Bs being hired from abroad, but it doesn't exist initially for most H-1Bs when entering the job market. Of course 2 years into the job is a different story because H-1Bs have less negotiation power to seek out other jobs and get good retention offers etc
    - euos 4y ago
      I would seriously doubt that most H1 workers come from US colleges. It is a common knowledge that most H1s go to Tata/Infosys and friends. Also, I would wonder: 1. How much of those foreign graduates went to college solely for a visa. 2. I would also expect that those graduates have much lower expectations from the life style. Young men don't really need a lot of money and have a lot of time to spend at work.
bergenty 4y ago
It’s a balance between siphoning brain away from the rest of the world and maintaining decent wages. Wages for developers are definitely not low, and that’s the truth.
dahdum 4y ago
It's a net gain for America to have more skilled tech workers. If that means slightly lower wages for everyone, so be it. Given the number of large tech companies founded by immigrants, I'm not certain wage suppression is a given anyway. I feel the same way about doctors and other highly paid skilled professions, and immigration as a whole.
- thrown_22 4y ago
  The benefits are split $200,000 for faang and -$150,000 the rest of the country though.
SideQuark 4y ago
Conversely, if the sector grows, it may well be that all workers in it make more. This has been the trend in many, many high tech scenarios. Or, we can let the skilled workers end up elsewhere, those places develop the next innovations, and soon the high paying jobs are not here, but have moved to those places willing to invest in talent. The main reason the US has such high salaries is not that we stopped skilled workers coming here - around 50% of Fortune 500 companies were started here by imiigrants. I, as a US citizen, want the world's best and brightest to come here, so I can learn, have to compete, and become part of improving tech sectors, not backwater xenophobic countries banning workers. It's historically extremely shortsighted to think that having to compete solely makes wages lower. If that were true, we'd all have lower wages than our ancestors, which is demonstrably untrue.
- UncleEntity 4y ago
  > If that were true, we'd all have lower wages than our ancestors, which is demonstrably untrue. I got a good laugh out of that… Every study I’ve heard about says that relative wages have been steadily decreasing compared to earlier generations. This naturally leads to a lower standard of living which, incidentally, get covered over by technological advances. Not that I blame immigration for this but take issue with the “demonstrably untrue” part. You can prove that my niece making $15/hr in 2022 is higher than her mother making $5/hr in 1987 for essentially the same job but what’s the relative difference?
  - gilbetron 4y ago
    $5 in 1987 is around $13.12 in 2022 dollars.
    - UncleEntity 4y ago
      > $5 in 1987 is around $13.12 in 2022 dollars. Huh, not sure what all these minimum wage workers are complaining about then, that’s like 14% better.
      - 4y ago
UncleMeat 4y ago
Software engineers create jobs for software engineers. The reason why you can make 4x more money in SF than in London is because the entire world flocks to SF to work in software. Those H1B workers are making you money, not costing you money.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]