12 ms·

H-1B visa holders scramble for jobs after 2022 tech layoffs

82 points by lxm 4y ago

forrestblount 4y ago
Hoping this is helpful for some of the folks affected: https://www.bridge.legal/resources/free-legal-services-for-layoffs https://www.bridge.legal/resources/free-legal-services-for-l...
- mechanical_bear 4y ago
  Are you trying to suppress wages for citizen tech workers? This is how you suppress wages for citizen tech workers.
  - quacked 4y ago
    It's no use. I agree with you, but most of the people who want to help H-1Bs see it as reductive and archaic to try and promote the welfare of your own citizens over that of foreigners.
    - dahdum 4y ago
      It's promoting the welfare of a certain very privileged class of citizens, of which you belong, at the expense of overall American interests.
      - quacked 4y ago
        I'm not sure what you mean.
    - ben0x539 4y ago
      As a foreigner, I find myself forced to agree with those people.
      - quacked 4y ago
        Everyone is a foreigner under most frames of reference.
    - SideQuark 4y ago
      >promote the welfare of your own citizens over that of foreigners Isolationist countries end up with poorer people, in the same way if you made an isolationist state, county, city, or household, would simply end up making you poorer. It's a shame more people don't read economics widely enough to understand this.
      - quacked 4y ago
        An "isolationist country" and a "country that ensures that its natural-born citizens are well-provided for before admitting new labor that will compete harder for lower rewards" are not necessarily the same thing.
      - rayiner 4y ago
        Do they? The Scandinavian countries have almost no skilled immigration, and had very little unskilled immigration until recently. Sweden still seems like a pretty great place to live.
        thrown_22 4y ago
        dang 4y ago
        We've banned this account for posting flamewar comments and ignoring our requests to stop. Please don't create accounts to do that with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        SideQuark 4y ago
        Average results over all valid candidates. Picking a best case example from many valid candidates is as fallacious as picking a worst case example. Sweden also has a PPP adjusted median disposable income over 30% lower than in the US [1]. I'd prefer to live here. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income
  - alvarezbjm-hn 4y ago
    This is a service to facilitate H1B sponsorship "Lowering America Citizen Wages" is a problem with American Companies paying less to foreigners, not with foreigners being available for hire. The comment is xenophobic
    - euos 4y ago
      As ex-H1 immigrant I will dare to explain. Companies are paying absolute minimum they can. It is only rational. The problem is with expectations. A lot of H1 workers are used to a much lower quality of life than native workers. US graduate would want to have a 40 hour work-week, separate bedroom, 401k and such. For a foreign worker from a less reach region 401k and medical are not a requirement, sharing a bedroom with 3 other guys is not an issue. Working round a clock is fine as long as you can send money to your family back in the old country. Oh, also in US you can afford a car that will make you look super-successful on social media. Do you really want to drive down quality of life for everybody.
      - throwaway_9_7_5 4y ago
        The majority of H-1 workers (in my experience as a former H-1 worker) went to university in the US and then transition to H-1B. They have the same salary expectations as their American peers and get the same offers. Maybe this salary injustice exists for H-1Bs being hired from abroad, but it doesn't exist initially for most H-1Bs when entering the job market. Of course 2 years into the job is a different story because H-1Bs have less negotiation power to seek out other jobs and get good retention offers etc
        euos 4y ago
        I would seriously doubt that most H1 workers come from US colleges. It is a common knowledge that most H1s go to Tata/Infosys and friends. Also, I would wonder: 1. How much of those foreign graduates went to college solely for a visa. 2. I would also expect that those graduates have much lower expectations from the life style. Young men don't really need a lot of money and have a lot of time to spend at work.
  - bergenty 4y ago
    It’s a balance between siphoning brain away from the rest of the world and maintaining decent wages. Wages for developers are definitely not low, and that’s the truth.
  - dahdum 4y ago
    It's a net gain for America to have more skilled tech workers. If that means slightly lower wages for everyone, so be it. Given the number of large tech companies founded by immigrants, I'm not certain wage suppression is a given anyway. I feel the same way about doctors and other highly paid skilled professions, and immigration as a whole.
    - thrown_22 4y ago
      The benefits are split $200,000 for faang and -$150,000 the rest of the country though.
  - SideQuark 4y ago
    Conversely, if the sector grows, it may well be that all workers in it make more. This has been the trend in many, many high tech scenarios. Or, we can let the skilled workers end up elsewhere, those places develop the next innovations, and soon the high paying jobs are not here, but have moved to those places willing to invest in talent. The main reason the US has such high salaries is not that we stopped skilled workers coming here - around 50% of Fortune 500 companies were started here by imiigrants. I, as a US citizen, want the world's best and brightest to come here, so I can learn, have to compete, and become part of improving tech sectors, not backwater xenophobic countries banning workers. It's historically extremely shortsighted to think that having to compete solely makes wages lower. If that were true, we'd all have lower wages than our ancestors, which is demonstrably untrue.
    - UncleEntity 4y ago
      > If that were true, we'd all have lower wages than our ancestors, which is demonstrably untrue. I got a good laugh out of that… Every study I’ve heard about says that relative wages have been steadily decreasing compared to earlier generations. This naturally leads to a lower standard of living which, incidentally, get covered over by technological advances. Not that I blame immigration for this but take issue with the “demonstrably untrue” part. You can prove that my niece making $15/hr in 2022 is higher than her mother making $5/hr in 1987 for essentially the same job but what’s the relative difference?
      - gilbetron 4y ago
        $5 in 1987 is around $13.12 in 2022 dollars.
        UncleEntity 4y ago
        > $5 in 1987 is around $13.12 in 2022 dollars. Huh, not sure what all these minimum wage workers are complaining about then, that’s like 14% better.
        4y ago
  - UncleMeat 4y ago
    Software engineers create jobs for software engineers. The reason why you can make 4x more money in SF than in London is because the entire world flocks to SF to work in software. Those H1B workers are making you money, not costing you money.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
throwaway2729 4y ago
- akashshah87 4y ago
  This is not true. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/29/tech-companies-lobbying-immigration-facebook-family-visas/2121179/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/29/tech-c...
- yieldcrv 4y ago
  The art of lobbying is to wait for power vacuums. Getting involved in immigration could stir a bipartisan hive causing further restrictions. Wait for other special interests to move to far extremes of their preferred parties, focusing on things that will never reach consensus, leaving the center unguarded. Thats worked really well for me any way.
- commandlinefan 4y ago
  > not for a better experience for those on H1-B visa They don't seem to be super big fans of positive experiences for US citizens either.
- vkou 4y ago
  I've spent three years on a TN visa, 6 on an H1-B, and I have not a single complaint about how I was treated by my employer, relative to my peers. The problem isn't at FANG, the problem is at shitty third-tier headshops.
- School-Cotton 4y ago
  Citation needed. Granted I’m a U.S. citizen, but this doesn’t match anything I’ve heard from my many friends on visas at Meta.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- asdajksah2123 4y ago
  This is definitely not true. FAANGs have done a lot of lobbying for improved conditions for those on H1-Bs, including the elimination of the caps that have people waiting for decades for the permanent residency, despite being approved for it.
walterbell 4y ago
Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33677860 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33677860 There are legal versions of that approach.
- bsimpson 4y ago
  I've long been embarrassed that US immigration law so often errs on the side of xenophobia and cruelty. That said, I don't understand education+early career visas. "Come get an education at one of our universities, and then take your utility elsewhere!" If we're gonna train people, we should have onramps to employment so our economy can benefit too.
  - htkibar 4y ago
    It brings money, and spreads influence. Solves a different type of problem.
  - 988747 4y ago
    > I've long been embarrassed that US immigration law so often errs on the side of xenophobia and cruelty. That's the effect of being the single most desirable target for immigrants. If US immigration laws were any more lenient, it would be the most populous country on Earth already, way ahead of India and China.
    - factsarelolz 4y ago
      - calculatte 4y ago
        Your understanding seems to be based completely off the agitprop the media passes off as "news" and the politicians push for donations. Provoking fear and anger is the preferred way to capture your attention. It's time to get out of the echo chamber and stop falling for it.
jimbob45 4y ago
400,000 current H-1B visa holders[0] divided by 999 at-risk holders (article describes "hundreds") leaves us with less than 0.25% of the visa-holding population at risk. It's very possible that I'm heavily overstating that percentage. How is this even news? [0]https://www.stilt.com/blog/2019/04/h1b-visa-holders-in-usa/ https://www.stilt.com/blog/2019/04/h1b-visa-holders-in-usa/
- lucasmullens 4y ago
  332,000,000 people in the US divided by 999 at-risk holders leaves us with less than 0.0003% of the population at risk. I don't think percentages are useful here. Hundreds of human beings suffering is something I will always empathize with.
- snambi 4y ago
  As a citizen, if I get laid off, I get a severance package and support from the state. It is ok if I get laid off. Temporary inconvenience, but family doesn't need to suffer. It is not the case for H1B visa holders. If H1B visa holder gets laid off, they need to find a job in 60 days. That is a lot of stress. Suppose they find a in different state, they need to move. This is stress for the family and children as well. In the worst case, they may need to leave the country. It is harder, because they need to sell all their properties, move the stuff and relocate the family in an extremely short period of time. I think the H1B rules are draconian. IMHO, H1B must be reformed or abolished. In the current form, it only benefits big companies to hire great talent for cheap and keep under their control. Similar to bonded labour.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    How EXACTLY does it work for someone laid off from Twitter, for example? Does the 60 day clock begin the moment they were "laid off" or the moment severance runs out? Does it matter if the company puts them on garden leave instead of immediate lay-off?
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > How EXACTLY does it work for someone laid off from Twitter, for example? Does the 60 day clock begin the moment they were “laid off” or the moment severance runs out? Does it matter if the company puts them on garden leave instead of immediate lay-off? EDIT: This apparently is wrong, see downthread; the original text below is preserved for context When they are no longer legally employed, with legal employment including any terminal leave. (But not extended by severance, even if that is calculated based on pay for a particular time period.)
shmatt 4y ago
Part of the H-1B process is to prove you (hiring company) can't find and equal American citizen to come work for you. During a downturn in the tech sector, while companies are boasting about "cutting the fat" in their workforce by the tens of thousands. I'd assume it's much easier to find a citizen than it was a few years ago The companies admitting they over hired by thousands, also includes them claiming they needed immigrants they do not really need. This[1] article estimates 2,000 of the 23,000 tech workers laid off in November 2022 had H-1B visas. According to the U.S approach to immigration we should all be prioritizing the 21,000 non-visa holders before we try getting people more jobs so they can keep their visa https://techcrunch.com/2022/11/11/answers-for-h-1b-workers-whove-been-laid-off-or-think-they-might-be/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/11/11/answers-for-h-1b-workers-w...
- mingfli 4y ago
  > Part of the H-1B process is to prove you (hiring company) can't find and equal American citizen to come work for you. This is true for a company sponsored Green Card application, not H-1B visa.
  - dvaun 4y ago
    It is true if the employer is considered H-1B dependent[0]. For employers with >51 employees if 15% or greater of the employees are H-1B workers then they must attempt to hire US workers first[1]. [0]: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62o-h1b-recruitment https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62o-h1b-recruit... [1]: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62c-h1b-dependent-employer https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62c-h1b-depende...
    - diebeforei485 4y ago
      To be clear, this is not the same level as the green card PERM process (which requires jobs be advertised in physical newspapers, etc). This simply says equally or higher qualified US workers who apply to the same job should be offered the job, but there is no need to seek out US workers.
time_to_smile 4y ago
Sadly this is going to really change our tech community. I suspect many US citizens, especially at large US companies, have no idea how many colleagues', coworkers' and friends' ability to stay in the United State ultimately rests on their being a strong demand for tech talent. Most of our discussions around the system impact of layoffs have been in regard to changes in TC long term, but I personally think that's minor compared to potentially saying goodbye to some friends for a long time. The issue is not just this current scramble, but if the job market in tech does shrink and continue to do so we're going to see the number of places sponsoring H1B shrink tremendously. Estimates are hard to come by accurately, but the number of H1B holders in tech is fairly large, this could be a change that quite literally changes the face of tech in the US.
evbogue 4y ago
https://archive.ph/sqZoN https://archive.ph/sqZoN
throwaway_9_7_5 4y ago
As a Former H-1B holder I'm really surprised how few people think about the intention of the program: A temporary worker program to bring highly skilled labor into the country (or allow them to stay longer) (temporarily) as demonstrated by the needs of a specific employer. Let's not pretend there is some huge injustice here. This is a risk we must take into account as immigrants. None of us have the automatic right to stay and work here, and that isn't the intention of the program. Immigration is not a right, it is a privilege.
- 22SAS 4y ago
  As a current H1B holder, I agree. I always say that visa workers may not realize it at first but the day they stand outside the consulate for their visa interview, they indirectly agree to whatever headaches come with being on an H1B (or any sort of work visa for that matter).
  - commandlinefan 4y ago
    > As a current H1B holder, I agree It seems like the only people who do understand the program are the people who are directly participating in it.
    - ecdavis 4y ago
      I agree with the parent and grandparent comments. That said, when I was sponsored for an E-3 visa by a US company the recruiters made it clear that my position was permanent (subject to performance) and that the company would sponsor me for a Green Card. These representations were contradicted by the legal documents I presented in my interview at the US consulate. Nonetheless, I can imagine some employees on these sorts of visas might take their employer at their word and plan their lives accordingly.
- miscaccount 4y ago
  though i agree with you overall, right now the system is totally not working for indians and to a some extend chinese. The current wait time for indians is over 100 years whereas all other countries get their green card in a couple of years(after green card sponsorship). This makes the system crushing the Indians who have roots for more than decades. For people who would say , you should have seen it coming , recently the demand from other countries are too high that wait time for indians are in decades at minimum
airocker 4y ago
There are about 150 good computer schools in the US producing 400 employable graduates on average in the tech industry, total of 60000 engineers. 60000+ H1Bs come every year. H1B is a necessity because the need is too high. H1B is not replacing US workers.

82 points by lxm 4y ago

Hoping this is helpful for some of the folks affected: https://www.bridge.legal/resources/free-legal-services-for-layoffs https://www.bridge.legal/resources/free-legal-services-for-l...

mechanical_bear 4y ago
Are you trying to suppress wages for citizen tech workers? This is how you suppress wages for citizen tech workers.
- quacked 4y ago
  It's no use. I agree with you, but most of the people who want to help H-1Bs see it as reductive and archaic to try and promote the welfare of your own citizens over that of foreigners.
  - dahdum 4y ago
    It's promoting the welfare of a certain very privileged class of citizens, of which you belong, at the expense of overall American interests.
    - quacked 4y ago
      I'm not sure what you mean.
  - ben0x539 4y ago
    As a foreigner, I find myself forced to agree with those people.
    - quacked 4y ago
      Everyone is a foreigner under most frames of reference.
  - SideQuark 4y ago
    >promote the welfare of your own citizens over that of foreigners Isolationist countries end up with poorer people, in the same way if you made an isolationist state, county, city, or household, would simply end up making you poorer. It's a shame more people don't read economics widely enough to understand this.
    - quacked 4y ago
      An "isolationist country" and a "country that ensures that its natural-born citizens are well-provided for before admitting new labor that will compete harder for lower rewards" are not necessarily the same thing.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      Do they? The Scandinavian countries have almost no skilled immigration, and had very little unskilled immigration until recently. Sweden still seems like a pretty great place to live.
      - thrown_22 4y ago
        dang 4y ago
        We've banned this account for posting flamewar comments and ignoring our requests to stop. Please don't create accounts to do that with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - SideQuark 4y ago
        Average results over all valid candidates. Picking a best case example from many valid candidates is as fallacious as picking a worst case example. Sweden also has a PPP adjusted median disposable income over 30% lower than in the US [1]. I'd prefer to live here. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income
- alvarezbjm-hn 4y ago
  This is a service to facilitate H1B sponsorship "Lowering America Citizen Wages" is a problem with American Companies paying less to foreigners, not with foreigners being available for hire. The comment is xenophobic
  - euos 4y ago
    As ex-H1 immigrant I will dare to explain. Companies are paying absolute minimum they can. It is only rational. The problem is with expectations. A lot of H1 workers are used to a much lower quality of life than native workers. US graduate would want to have a 40 hour work-week, separate bedroom, 401k and such. For a foreign worker from a less reach region 401k and medical are not a requirement, sharing a bedroom with 3 other guys is not an issue. Working round a clock is fine as long as you can send money to your family back in the old country. Oh, also in US you can afford a car that will make you look super-successful on social media. Do you really want to drive down quality of life for everybody.
    - throwaway_9_7_5 4y ago
      The majority of H-1 workers (in my experience as a former H-1 worker) went to university in the US and then transition to H-1B. They have the same salary expectations as their American peers and get the same offers. Maybe this salary injustice exists for H-1Bs being hired from abroad, but it doesn't exist initially for most H-1Bs when entering the job market. Of course 2 years into the job is a different story because H-1Bs have less negotiation power to seek out other jobs and get good retention offers etc
      - euos 4y ago
        I would seriously doubt that most H1 workers come from US colleges. It is a common knowledge that most H1s go to Tata/Infosys and friends. Also, I would wonder: 1. How much of those foreign graduates went to college solely for a visa. 2. I would also expect that those graduates have much lower expectations from the life style. Young men don't really need a lot of money and have a lot of time to spend at work.
- bergenty 4y ago
  It’s a balance between siphoning brain away from the rest of the world and maintaining decent wages. Wages for developers are definitely not low, and that’s the truth.
- dahdum 4y ago
  It's a net gain for America to have more skilled tech workers. If that means slightly lower wages for everyone, so be it. Given the number of large tech companies founded by immigrants, I'm not certain wage suppression is a given anyway. I feel the same way about doctors and other highly paid skilled professions, and immigration as a whole.
  - thrown_22 4y ago
    The benefits are split $200,000 for faang and -$150,000 the rest of the country though.
- SideQuark 4y ago
  Conversely, if the sector grows, it may well be that all workers in it make more. This has been the trend in many, many high tech scenarios. Or, we can let the skilled workers end up elsewhere, those places develop the next innovations, and soon the high paying jobs are not here, but have moved to those places willing to invest in talent. The main reason the US has such high salaries is not that we stopped skilled workers coming here - around 50% of Fortune 500 companies were started here by imiigrants. I, as a US citizen, want the world's best and brightest to come here, so I can learn, have to compete, and become part of improving tech sectors, not backwater xenophobic countries banning workers. It's historically extremely shortsighted to think that having to compete solely makes wages lower. If that were true, we'd all have lower wages than our ancestors, which is demonstrably untrue.
  - UncleEntity 4y ago
    > If that were true, we'd all have lower wages than our ancestors, which is demonstrably untrue. I got a good laugh out of that… Every study I’ve heard about says that relative wages have been steadily decreasing compared to earlier generations. This naturally leads to a lower standard of living which, incidentally, get covered over by technological advances. Not that I blame immigration for this but take issue with the “demonstrably untrue” part. You can prove that my niece making $15/hr in 2022 is higher than her mother making $5/hr in 1987 for essentially the same job but what’s the relative difference?
    - gilbetron 4y ago
      $5 in 1987 is around $13.12 in 2022 dollars.
      - UncleEntity 4y ago
        > $5 in 1987 is around $13.12 in 2022 dollars. Huh, not sure what all these minimum wage workers are complaining about then, that’s like 14% better.
        4y ago
- UncleMeat 4y ago
  Software engineers create jobs for software engineers. The reason why you can make 4x more money in SF than in London is because the entire world flocks to SF to work in software. Those H1B workers are making you money, not costing you money.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

throwaway2729 4y ago

akashshah87 4y ago
This is not true. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/29/tech-companies-lobbying-immigration-facebook-family-visas/2121179/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/29/tech-c...
yieldcrv 4y ago
The art of lobbying is to wait for power vacuums. Getting involved in immigration could stir a bipartisan hive causing further restrictions. Wait for other special interests to move to far extremes of their preferred parties, focusing on things that will never reach consensus, leaving the center unguarded. Thats worked really well for me any way.
commandlinefan 4y ago
> not for a better experience for those on H1-B visa They don't seem to be super big fans of positive experiences for US citizens either.
vkou 4y ago
I've spent three years on a TN visa, 6 on an H1-B, and I have not a single complaint about how I was treated by my employer, relative to my peers. The problem isn't at FANG, the problem is at shitty third-tier headshops.
School-Cotton 4y ago
Citation needed. Granted I’m a U.S. citizen, but this doesn’t match anything I’ve heard from my many friends on visas at Meta.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
asdajksah2123 4y ago
This is definitely not true. FAANGs have done a lot of lobbying for improved conditions for those on H1-Bs, including the elimination of the caps that have people waiting for decades for the permanent residency, despite being approved for it.

walterbell 4y ago

Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33677860 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33677860 There are legal versions of that approach.

bsimpson 4y ago
I've long been embarrassed that US immigration law so often errs on the side of xenophobia and cruelty. That said, I don't understand education+early career visas. "Come get an education at one of our universities, and then take your utility elsewhere!" If we're gonna train people, we should have onramps to employment so our economy can benefit too.
- htkibar 4y ago
  It brings money, and spreads influence. Solves a different type of problem.
- 988747 4y ago
  > I've long been embarrassed that US immigration law so often errs on the side of xenophobia and cruelty. That's the effect of being the single most desirable target for immigrants. If US immigration laws were any more lenient, it would be the most populous country on Earth already, way ahead of India and China.
  - factsarelolz 4y ago
    - calculatte 4y ago
      Your understanding seems to be based completely off the agitprop the media passes off as "news" and the politicians push for donations. Provoking fear and anger is the preferred way to capture your attention. It's time to get out of the echo chamber and stop falling for it.

jimbob45 4y ago

400,000 current H-1B visa holders[0] divided by 999 at-risk holders (article describes "hundreds") leaves us with less than 0.25% of the visa-holding population at risk. It's very possible that I'm heavily overstating that percentage. How is this even news? [0]https://www.stilt.com/blog/2019/04/h1b-visa-holders-in-usa/ https://www.stilt.com/blog/2019/04/h1b-visa-holders-in-usa/

lucasmullens 4y ago
332,000,000 people in the US divided by 999 at-risk holders leaves us with less than 0.0003% of the population at risk. I don't think percentages are useful here. Hundreds of human beings suffering is something I will always empathize with.
snambi 4y ago
As a citizen, if I get laid off, I get a severance package and support from the state. It is ok if I get laid off. Temporary inconvenience, but family doesn't need to suffer. It is not the case for H1B visa holders. If H1B visa holder gets laid off, they need to find a job in 60 days. That is a lot of stress. Suppose they find a in different state, they need to move. This is stress for the family and children as well. In the worst case, they may need to leave the country. It is harder, because they need to sell all their properties, move the stuff and relocate the family in an extremely short period of time. I think the H1B rules are draconian. IMHO, H1B must be reformed or abolished. In the current form, it only benefits big companies to hire great talent for cheap and keep under their control. Similar to bonded labour.
- bombcar 4y ago
  How EXACTLY does it work for someone laid off from Twitter, for example? Does the 60 day clock begin the moment they were "laid off" or the moment severance runs out? Does it matter if the company puts them on garden leave instead of immediate lay-off?
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > How EXACTLY does it work for someone laid off from Twitter, for example? Does the 60 day clock begin the moment they were “laid off” or the moment severance runs out? Does it matter if the company puts them on garden leave instead of immediate lay-off? EDIT: This apparently is wrong, see downthread; the original text below is preserved for context When they are no longer legally employed, with legal employment including any terminal leave. (But not extended by severance, even if that is calculated based on pay for a particular time period.)

shmatt 4y ago

Part of the H-1B process is to prove you (hiring company) can't find and equal American citizen to come work for you. During a downturn in the tech sector, while companies are boasting about "cutting the fat" in their workforce by the tens of thousands. I'd assume it's much easier to find a citizen than it was a few years ago The companies admitting they over hired by thousands, also includes them claiming they needed immigrants they do not really need. This[1] article estimates 2,000 of the 23,000 tech workers laid off in November 2022 had H-1B visas. According to the U.S approach to immigration we should all be prioritizing the 21,000 non-visa holders before we try getting people more jobs so they can keep their visa https://techcrunch.com/2022/11/11/answers-for-h-1b-workers-whove-been-laid-off-or-think-they-might-be/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/11/11/answers-for-h-1b-workers-w...

mingfli 4y ago
> Part of the H-1B process is to prove you (hiring company) can't find and equal American citizen to come work for you. This is true for a company sponsored Green Card application, not H-1B visa.
- dvaun 4y ago
  It is true if the employer is considered H-1B dependent[0]. For employers with >51 employees if 15% or greater of the employees are H-1B workers then they must attempt to hire US workers first[1]. [0]: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62o-h1b-recruitment https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62o-h1b-recruit... [1]: https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62c-h1b-dependent-employer https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62c-h1b-depende...
  - diebeforei485 4y ago
    To be clear, this is not the same level as the green card PERM process (which requires jobs be advertised in physical newspapers, etc). This simply says equally or higher qualified US workers who apply to the same job should be offered the job, but there is no need to seek out US workers.

time_to_smile 4y ago

Sadly this is going to really change our tech community. I suspect many US citizens, especially at large US companies, have no idea how many colleagues', coworkers' and friends' ability to stay in the United State ultimately rests on their being a strong demand for tech talent. Most of our discussions around the system impact of layoffs have been in regard to changes in TC long term, but I personally think that's minor compared to potentially saying goodbye to some friends for a long time. The issue is not just this current scramble, but if the job market in tech does shrink and continue to do so we're going to see the number of places sponsoring H1B shrink tremendously. Estimates are hard to come by accurately, but the number of H1B holders in tech is fairly large, this could be a change that quite literally changes the face of tech in the US.

evbogue 4y ago

https://archive.ph/sqZoN https://archive.ph/sqZoN

throwaway_9_7_5 4y ago

As a Former H-1B holder I'm really surprised how few people think about the intention of the program: A temporary worker program to bring highly skilled labor into the country (or allow them to stay longer) (temporarily) as demonstrated by the needs of a specific employer. Let's not pretend there is some huge injustice here. This is a risk we must take into account as immigrants. None of us have the automatic right to stay and work here, and that isn't the intention of the program. Immigration is not a right, it is a privilege.

22SAS 4y ago
As a current H1B holder, I agree. I always say that visa workers may not realize it at first but the day they stand outside the consulate for their visa interview, they indirectly agree to whatever headaches come with being on an H1B (or any sort of work visa for that matter).
- commandlinefan 4y ago
  > As a current H1B holder, I agree It seems like the only people who do understand the program are the people who are directly participating in it.
  - ecdavis 4y ago
    I agree with the parent and grandparent comments. That said, when I was sponsored for an E-3 visa by a US company the recruiters made it clear that my position was permanent (subject to performance) and that the company would sponsor me for a Green Card. These representations were contradicted by the legal documents I presented in my interview at the US consulate. Nonetheless, I can imagine some employees on these sorts of visas might take their employer at their word and plan their lives accordingly.
miscaccount 4y ago
though i agree with you overall, right now the system is totally not working for indians and to a some extend chinese. The current wait time for indians is over 100 years whereas all other countries get their green card in a couple of years(after green card sponsorship). This makes the system crushing the Indians who have roots for more than decades. For people who would say , you should have seen it coming , recently the demand from other countries are too high that wait time for indians are in decades at minimum

airocker 4y ago

There are about 150 good computer schools in the US producing 400 employable graduates on average in the tech industry, total of 60000 engineers. 60000+ H1Bs come every year. H1B is a necessity because the need is too high. H1B is not replacing US workers.