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TradFi - Anyone can do it without permissions and lie, except regulations force accounting practices, revealing malfeasance. DeFi - Anyone can do it without pe

TradFi - Anyone can do it without permissions and lie, except regulations force accounting practices, revealing malfeasance. DeFi - Anyone can do it without permissions, and everyone can see they didn't lie. Crap-coin FTX Crypto Bros - Let's lie, do "TradFi" and call it "DeFi", comply with no regulations or accounting practices, and steal the Crypto. What could go wrong? HN low-research "Eternal September" Bros: Told ya Crypto was all a scam, yer dumb!

sangnoir 4y ago
You're No-true-Scottsman'ing DeFi by excluding FTX after the fact. I posit there is no way to tell apart the "real" DeFi from the Crap-coins. If you can tell them apart, which tokens and/or exchanges will fail next, and when? There's a pervasive aura of "secret knowledge" in crypto, where the in-group think of themselves as superior operators who scoff as the noobs get fleeced[1]; yet these suave traders continually fail to recognize peaks and troughs and trade accordingly. 1. Sometimes while trying to scam the noobs themselves. The whole "to the moon"/HODL/meme-stock episode was naked preying on unsophisticated traders/bag-holders
- pjkundert 4y ago
  Pretty much everyone credible has been warning people to get off all exchanges, since well, forever. Because you can't (and shouldn't) "trust" someone. If you want to trust someone, go to a bank. This isn't really too much a matter of "secret knowledge", but historical fact. But, hope springs eternal. And, self-referential Crap Coins (like Luna) are just, well, insane at first glance. Trust-based "Staking" for returns w/ no revenue model? Nuts! But, I've been modelling the behavior of wealth-backed currency systems for 15 years, so maybe it seemed obvious to me. I've been boring people to death with warnings about these for as long as they've existed. Again, this time it's different! And, the risks to all but the absolutely largest PoW and PoS networks are well known (relatively trivial 51% attack, see OFAC "compliance" disaster). And to "permissioned" networks (XRP, etc.); perfect for CBDCs, for liberty not so much. And the list goes on... So, spare me the "No True Scottsman" whitewash. The signs were all there, and the warnings were blaring. Dedicated, competent and highly-funded attackers are at work. Central/commercial banks, Treasuries, etc. cannot abide any fire-exit that is not chained shut, for what's coming. So, the stakes for attackers are high. The stakes for liberty-valuing citizens: even higher. Buckle up.
  - habinero 4y ago
    > Central/commercial banks, Treasuries, etc. cannot abide any fire-exit that is not chained shut Ok, then call it what it actually is: tax evasion, fraud, and laundering money. You're getting caught up in an anti-government agenda and forgetting that's not a good thing to most people.
    - pjkundert 4y ago
      I think most reasonable people would agree that desiring the freedom to invest your personal wealth in non-government approved investments isn't "tax evasion, fraud and laundering money". Isn't such a claim a bit ... bizarre?
      - habinero 4y ago
        No? "Non-government approved" either means "unregulated" or "illegal". Unregulated financial speculation has a lot of issues. See: FTX and NFTs
        pjkundert 4y ago
        So, no: - savings in gold/silver bullion - your sister's small business, back in the home country I'm sorry; if your position basically makes ever free person a criminal, then perhaps it isn't them that are the problem?
        habinero 4y ago
        Owning gold/silver is legal. It's also regulated - it's not legal tender. Investing in a business is legal. It also means sending money, which is regulated by KYC/AML and you're still responsible for taxes.
        TimJRobinson 4y ago
        Investing in small businesses isn't legal because you need to be an accredited investor which only the top 1% of the wealth pyramid qualify for. It's these kinds of rules to "save people from themselves" that have the bonus effect of the rich gatekeeping the best investments that make a lot of people mad and see the current system as corrupt. Being able to spend and invest my money how I want should not be a crime.
- RestlessMind 4y ago
  > You're No-true-Scottsman'ing DeFi by excluding FTX after the fact. You are trying to fit the square peg of scam otherwise known as FTX into the round hole of DeFi. It was apparent since the day of its founding that FTX is not DeFi nor trustless.

sangnoir 4y ago

You're No-true-Scottsman'ing DeFi by excluding FTX after the fact. I posit there is no way to tell apart the "real" DeFi from the Crap-coins. If you can tell them apart, which tokens and/or exchanges will fail next, and when? There's a pervasive aura of "secret knowledge" in crypto, where the in-group think of themselves as superior operators who scoff as the noobs get fleeced[1]; yet these suave traders continually fail to recognize peaks and troughs and trade accordingly. 1. Sometimes while trying to scam the noobs themselves. The whole "to the moon"/HODL/meme-stock episode was naked preying on unsophisticated traders/bag-holders

pjkundert 4y ago
Pretty much everyone credible has been warning people to get off all exchanges, since well, forever. Because you can't (and shouldn't) "trust" someone. If you want to trust someone, go to a bank. This isn't really too much a matter of "secret knowledge", but historical fact. But, hope springs eternal. And, self-referential Crap Coins (like Luna) are just, well, insane at first glance. Trust-based "Staking" for returns w/ no revenue model? Nuts! But, I've been modelling the behavior of wealth-backed currency systems for 15 years, so maybe it seemed obvious to me. I've been boring people to death with warnings about these for as long as they've existed. Again, this time it's different! And, the risks to all but the absolutely largest PoW and PoS networks are well known (relatively trivial 51% attack, see OFAC "compliance" disaster). And to "permissioned" networks (XRP, etc.); perfect for CBDCs, for liberty not so much. And the list goes on... So, spare me the "No True Scottsman" whitewash. The signs were all there, and the warnings were blaring. Dedicated, competent and highly-funded attackers are at work. Central/commercial banks, Treasuries, etc. cannot abide any fire-exit that is not chained shut, for what's coming. So, the stakes for attackers are high. The stakes for liberty-valuing citizens: even higher. Buckle up.
- habinero 4y ago
  > Central/commercial banks, Treasuries, etc. cannot abide any fire-exit that is not chained shut Ok, then call it what it actually is: tax evasion, fraud, and laundering money. You're getting caught up in an anti-government agenda and forgetting that's not a good thing to most people.
  - pjkundert 4y ago
    I think most reasonable people would agree that desiring the freedom to invest your personal wealth in non-government approved investments isn't "tax evasion, fraud and laundering money". Isn't such a claim a bit ... bizarre?
    - habinero 4y ago
      No? "Non-government approved" either means "unregulated" or "illegal". Unregulated financial speculation has a lot of issues. See: FTX and NFTs
      - pjkundert 4y ago
        So, no: - savings in gold/silver bullion - your sister's small business, back in the home country I'm sorry; if your position basically makes ever free person a criminal, then perhaps it isn't them that are the problem?
        habinero 4y ago
        Owning gold/silver is legal. It's also regulated - it's not legal tender. Investing in a business is legal. It also means sending money, which is regulated by KYC/AML and you're still responsible for taxes.
        TimJRobinson 4y ago
        Investing in small businesses isn't legal because you need to be an accredited investor which only the top 1% of the wealth pyramid qualify for. It's these kinds of rules to "save people from themselves" that have the bonus effect of the rich gatekeeping the best investments that make a lot of people mad and see the current system as corrupt. Being able to spend and invest my money how I want should not be a crime.
RestlessMind 4y ago
> You're No-true-Scottsman'ing DeFi by excluding FTX after the fact. You are trying to fit the square peg of scam otherwise known as FTX into the round hole of DeFi. It was apparent since the day of its founding that FTX is not DeFi nor trustless.