5 ms·

It's funny to see HN complain about this, but at the same time not say anything about how you can upgrade IntelliJ IDEA (and other software) from Free to Pro to

by 323 4y ago

It's funny to see HN complain about this, but at the same time not say anything about how you can upgrade IntelliJ IDEA (and other software) from Free to Pro to Ultimate which is exactly the same thing - receive a code to unlock functionality which is already baked into the code.

P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
It would be akin to purchasing a cd-rom and having to pay a subscription to get it to go from 1x to 24x. There is clearly a separate set of rules for physical goods vs purely software. that expectation hasn't changed just because vehicle manufacturers have started using more software in their vehicles. People understand why GPS needs a subscription, there's no reason for physical performance to need a subscription except purely for segmentation and profits. It will eventually become illegal to do.
- Workaccount2 4y ago
  There is no need for software to have a subscription except segmentation and profits.
  - clintonb 4y ago
    Maintenance. If you want new features and bug fixes, you will either pay upfront with a high sticker price or pay overtime via subscription. Subscriptions also make software more affordable for those breaking into industries. I, along with many peers, pirated Photoshop for years. That’s not necessary when I can get Creative Suite for $10 per month. It’s actually been free for me for the past couple years because I upload stock photos. Both Adobe and the consumer come out ahead in a world where the consumer doesn’t have to pirate software.
    - Workaccount2 4y ago
      >Both Adobe and the consumer come out ahead in a world where the consumer doesn’t have to pirate software. You left out the option of "Purchase the full software package for a single flat cost equal to 1 year's subscription fee today". Taken from the brief period when companies offered offline packages. The truth is that a lot of users don't need the latest and greatest. They need the software to do a few things, and if that software is 5 years old it doesn't matter. Software companies don't like this, so they instead switched to a subscription model that forces users to constantly upgrade despite not needing anything new. It's a truly scummy business model.
      - fomine3 4y ago
        That's what Adobe doesn't, while MS Office and JetBrains do.
    - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
      Are we back in the 90's where people try to download ram, only in this case it's, what, downloading a new engine? new shocks? The vehicle is a physical thing and the maintenance of that physical thing is paid for by the consumer by taking it to a LOCAL shop. When I can get the software in my vehicle maintained by a local shop such that I choose the price points, then we can talk. Until that happens, this is about profits and lockin and will eventually become illegal in the same way that it became illegal for car manufacturers to sell their own vehicles in many (most?) states.
      - 323 4y ago
        > same way that it became illegal for car manufacturers to sell their own vehicles in many (most?) states. This is plain old lobbying from car dealers. It has nothing to do with customer protection. Or maybe you support making it illegal in a similar way for Apple to have Apple stores and instead demand that Apple sells it's Macbooks and phones in non-Apple stores, together with Microsoft and Samsung.
        P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
        Only on HN can someone take a post about car subscriptions and veer off into arguments about apple having brick and mortar stores.
        323 4y ago
        You're the one saying it's desirable to make it illegal for car companies to have their own brick and mortar stores. If you were consistent, then you would support making it illegal for Apple too.
        P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
        > If you were consistent, then you would support making it illegal for Apple too. If you were consistent, you'd argue that it should be legal to have sex with a 5 year old since it's legal to have sex with a 25 year old. If you were consistent, you'd argue it should be ok for anyone to send your children to a room in their house since you're ok with sending your children to a room in your house. If you were consistent, you would be ok with anyone sleeping with your spouse since you sleep with your spouse. --- Well it turns out I'm not consistent, sue me.
chewbacha 4y ago
Unfortunately, I don’t think that analogy is apt. It would be more akin to buying a MacBook and then needing to pay apple a subscription to speed up your M1 chip and improve battery life. The reason this feels bad is that I’ve already paid for the hardware. With the IntelliJ analogy, we never paid for the original software and purchasing additional features is reasonable.
- 323 4y ago
  If Mercedes made it clear when you bought the car that you'll get limited performance and you need to pay to unlock further performance, would it still be a wrong analogy?
vladvasiliu 4y ago
For what it's worth, the cars presumably have the same engines, same everything. So, you're carrying around batteries that are unused, etc. Whereas a download of IntelliJ Community Edition is almost 200 MB lighter than the Ultimate Edition, so even though "it's just software", you don't have to haul around "useless" features (if you don't pay).

by 323 4y ago

P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago

It would be akin to purchasing a cd-rom and having to pay a subscription to get it to go from 1x to 24x. There is clearly a separate set of rules for physical goods vs purely software. that expectation hasn't changed just because vehicle manufacturers have started using more software in their vehicles. People understand why GPS needs a subscription, there's no reason for physical performance to need a subscription except purely for segmentation and profits. It will eventually become illegal to do.

Workaccount2 4y ago
There is no need for software to have a subscription except segmentation and profits.
- clintonb 4y ago
  Maintenance. If you want new features and bug fixes, you will either pay upfront with a high sticker price or pay overtime via subscription. Subscriptions also make software more affordable for those breaking into industries. I, along with many peers, pirated Photoshop for years. That’s not necessary when I can get Creative Suite for $10 per month. It’s actually been free for me for the past couple years because I upload stock photos. Both Adobe and the consumer come out ahead in a world where the consumer doesn’t have to pirate software.
  - Workaccount2 4y ago
    >Both Adobe and the consumer come out ahead in a world where the consumer doesn’t have to pirate software. You left out the option of "Purchase the full software package for a single flat cost equal to 1 year's subscription fee today". Taken from the brief period when companies offered offline packages. The truth is that a lot of users don't need the latest and greatest. They need the software to do a few things, and if that software is 5 years old it doesn't matter. Software companies don't like this, so they instead switched to a subscription model that forces users to constantly upgrade despite not needing anything new. It's a truly scummy business model.
    - fomine3 4y ago
      That's what Adobe doesn't, while MS Office and JetBrains do.
  - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
    Are we back in the 90's where people try to download ram, only in this case it's, what, downloading a new engine? new shocks? The vehicle is a physical thing and the maintenance of that physical thing is paid for by the consumer by taking it to a LOCAL shop. When I can get the software in my vehicle maintained by a local shop such that I choose the price points, then we can talk. Until that happens, this is about profits and lockin and will eventually become illegal in the same way that it became illegal for car manufacturers to sell their own vehicles in many (most?) states.
    - 323 4y ago
      > same way that it became illegal for car manufacturers to sell their own vehicles in many (most?) states. This is plain old lobbying from car dealers. It has nothing to do with customer protection. Or maybe you support making it illegal in a similar way for Apple to have Apple stores and instead demand that Apple sells it's Macbooks and phones in non-Apple stores, together with Microsoft and Samsung.
      - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
        Only on HN can someone take a post about car subscriptions and veer off into arguments about apple having brick and mortar stores.
        323 4y ago
        You're the one saying it's desirable to make it illegal for car companies to have their own brick and mortar stores. If you were consistent, then you would support making it illegal for Apple too.
        P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
        > If you were consistent, then you would support making it illegal for Apple too. If you were consistent, you'd argue that it should be legal to have sex with a 5 year old since it's legal to have sex with a 25 year old. If you were consistent, you'd argue it should be ok for anyone to send your children to a room in their house since you're ok with sending your children to a room in your house. If you were consistent, you would be ok with anyone sleeping with your spouse since you sleep with your spouse. --- Well it turns out I'm not consistent, sue me.

chewbacha 4y ago

Unfortunately, I don’t think that analogy is apt. It would be more akin to buying a MacBook and then needing to pay apple a subscription to speed up your M1 chip and improve battery life. The reason this feels bad is that I’ve already paid for the hardware. With the IntelliJ analogy, we never paid for the original software and purchasing additional features is reasonable.

323 4y ago
If Mercedes made it clear when you bought the car that you'll get limited performance and you need to pay to unlock further performance, would it still be a wrong analogy?

vladvasiliu 4y ago

For what it's worth, the cars presumably have the same engines, same everything. So, you're carrying around batteries that are unused, etc. Whereas a download of IntelliJ Community Edition is almost 200 MB lighter than the Ultimate Edition, so even though "it's just software", you don't have to haul around "useless" features (if you don't pay).