4 ms·

What’s the use case for this? I’m not seeing it.

pjkundert 4y ago
You see no benefit in Apps that cannot be "disappeared" by anyone (even the person who deployed it), and which scales without bound and can be composed (re-skinned or extended) without restriction? Or, forked and restricted to your own cryptographically identified and secured set of users?
- ctvo 4y ago
  Can you answer the question with use cases and examples instead of this rhetorical question? It doesn't help your credibility when you can't list off 10-20 use cases and examples for your groundbreaking technology without contorting yourself.
  - pjkundert 4y ago
    I'm sorry; but isn't this sort of like demanding an answer to the question "I can't see a use for the motorcar; horses work just fine"?
    - Tesl 4y ago
      no
    - jrek 4y ago
      Not at all, in the sense that if you were asked THAT question, you’d easily be able to come up with a convincing answer.
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  What is the value proposition of "can't be disappeared by anyone" exactly? Reversibility and deletability are actually features of most systems. Scales without bound is cool, but generally lacks use and is expensive. I would rather scale to my actual usage bounds rather than paying for infinite scalability. Composed without restriction is cool, but I got that with the MIT and BSD licenses. Forked and restricted has already been possible using traditional open-source computer infrastructure.
pjkundert 4y ago
OK, I’ve always considered these types of questions as disingenuous. But, enough people seem to disagree. So, at risk of stating the obvious: - Avoid risk of accidental/malicious deplatforming - Personal control of all data, avoiding incompetence/malfeasance presenting faulty data - Deploying enhanced presentation of existing functionality and data cannot be restricted - Reuse of existing functionality in private environments can’t be prevented - Guarantee that results based on trees of publicly committed data are themselves valid, without personally traversing the tree and recomputing results - … As I write this, I’m struggling to comprehend how these benefits aren’t obvious. Maybe it’s because I’ve been searching for solutions to these problems since the early 90’s for distributed industrial control and monitoring. But seriously, I’m certain lots of developers run into these constraints and are seeking solutions.
- pjkundert 4y ago
  A specific application I'm working on right now involves using Crypto for direct payments between software Licensees (end users) and the App developer. Presently, there is a high risk of loss of income (see: every small individual Russian or Iranian software developer. Their families are now suffering because their income has been shut off, even though this is a textbook example of "Group Punishment" under the Geneva Convention. If I had decided to send some of my company's income to the Canadian "Freedom Convoy", my family's income would also have also been summarily cut off, without trial or conviction in a court of law). So, like it or not: there are innocent individual who, due to no fault of their own, cannot use "TradFi" -- "DeFi" is their only alternative to achieve an income to care for their families. Using a trivial Ethereum Smart Contract, a single-use Ethereum wallet address is generated for a set of payees (eg. the software author(s) and any number of other license fee recipients) designated to receive a proportion of an Ethereum fee payment. When the payment is received at the designated address -- the software License is generated, and any one of the payees can trigger the "smart contract" executing distribution of the fees to each of the payees' accounts, without being able to change the proportional distribution. None of this is possible under "TradFi". All of it (except for the automatic generation of the License) is possible under Ethereum "DeFi". The entire application (including automatic, atomic generation of the License and distribution of fees) is possible under Holochain. In all honesty -- whenever I hear "Crypto is a solution in search of a problem", I really have trouble not rolling my eyes. Perhaps that's not nice. But seriously; if you're here on HN, I have higher expectations of you. If you're enraged by this; perhaps there may be other forums more appropriate for you? :)

You see no benefit in Apps that cannot be "disappeared" by anyone (even the person who deployed it), and which scales without bound and can be composed (re-skinned or extended) without restriction? Or, forked and restricted to your own cryptographically identified and secured set of users?

ctvo 4y ago
Can you answer the question with use cases and examples instead of this rhetorical question? It doesn't help your credibility when you can't list off 10-20 use cases and examples for your groundbreaking technology without contorting yourself.
- pjkundert 4y ago
  I'm sorry; but isn't this sort of like demanding an answer to the question "I can't see a use for the motorcar; horses work just fine"?
  - Tesl 4y ago
    no
  - jrek 4y ago
    Not at all, in the sense that if you were asked THAT question, you’d easily be able to come up with a convincing answer.
pclmulqdq 4y ago
What is the value proposition of "can't be disappeared by anyone" exactly? Reversibility and deletability are actually features of most systems. Scales without bound is cool, but generally lacks use and is expensive. I would rather scale to my actual usage bounds rather than paying for infinite scalability. Composed without restriction is cool, but I got that with the MIT and BSD licenses. Forked and restricted has already been possible using traditional open-source computer infrastructure.

pjkundert 4y ago

OK, I’ve always considered these types of questions as disingenuous. But, enough people seem to disagree. So, at risk of stating the obvious: - Avoid risk of accidental/malicious deplatforming - Personal control of all data, avoiding incompetence/malfeasance presenting faulty data - Deploying enhanced presentation of existing functionality and data cannot be restricted - Reuse of existing functionality in private environments can’t be prevented - Guarantee that results based on trees of publicly committed data are themselves valid, without personally traversing the tree and recomputing results - … As I write this, I’m struggling to comprehend how these benefits aren’t obvious. Maybe it’s because I’ve been searching for solutions to these problems since the early 90’s for distributed industrial control and monitoring. But seriously, I’m certain lots of developers run into these constraints and are seeking solutions.

pjkundert 4y ago
A specific application I'm working on right now involves using Crypto for direct payments between software Licensees (end users) and the App developer. Presently, there is a high risk of loss of income (see: every small individual Russian or Iranian software developer. Their families are now suffering because their income has been shut off, even though this is a textbook example of "Group Punishment" under the Geneva Convention. If I had decided to send some of my company's income to the Canadian "Freedom Convoy", my family's income would also have also been summarily cut off, without trial or conviction in a court of law). So, like it or not: there are innocent individual who, due to no fault of their own, cannot use "TradFi" -- "DeFi" is their only alternative to achieve an income to care for their families. Using a trivial Ethereum Smart Contract, a single-use Ethereum wallet address is generated for a set of payees (eg. the software author(s) and any number of other license fee recipients) designated to receive a proportion of an Ethereum fee payment. When the payment is received at the designated address -- the software License is generated, and any one of the payees can trigger the "smart contract" executing distribution of the fees to each of the payees' accounts, without being able to change the proportional distribution. None of this is possible under "TradFi". All of it (except for the automatic generation of the License) is possible under Ethereum "DeFi". The entire application (including automatic, atomic generation of the License and distribution of fees) is possible under Holochain. In all honesty -- whenever I hear "Crypto is a solution in search of a problem", I really have trouble not rolling my eyes. Perhaps that's not nice. But seriously; if you're here on HN, I have higher expectations of you. If you're enraged by this; perhaps there may be other forums more appropriate for you? :)