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How is permissionless composability different from the MIT license? I'm confused what you're composing now that you couldn't before and the benefit of that perm

How is permissionless composability different from the MIT license? I'm confused what you're composing now that you couldn't before and the benefit of that permissionless composability. Ecosystems of programming libraries and compostable abstractions don't require a blockchain as far as I can tell.

pjkundert 4y ago
It's like the MIT license, plus AWS with an unlimited account and auto-scaling. In the case of self-hosted Apps (ie. where you need to "install" something on your phone or computer), each peer provides their own compute/storage/networking to host their own usage of the App, plus a small fragment of everyone else's usage (proportional to a few average user's worth). So, the cost to each user is a small constant C times the average user's utilization. And the benefit is that the application persists, in its entirety, as long as any number of users >= 1 continue to use the App.
- hestefisk 4y ago
  It’s not really an unlimited account. Execution on eth is expensive…
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    It's like AWS serverless compute with inefficiency built-in as a feature and a jacked-up billing rate.
    - daveguy 4y ago
      This concept is very interesting. Is there an existing framework that implements this? It would seem there would need to be some baseline tools for development on such a system. I feel like the tools available for this purpose would need to be more powerful than existing IDE systems in order for it to be adopted on a wide scale. Is it possible to design such a system without a blockchain?
  - pjkundert 4y ago
    Yes, in the case of Ethereum "DeFi", the end user is expected to pay the (significant) cost of executing functionality. For next-gen "DeFi" systems like Holochain -- the incremental cost of executing functionality is vanishingly small, and can be distributed across a DHT substrate hosted by all users of the App. A self hosted Holochain "DeFi" app costs a small constant factor C times the average agent's memory / network / storage cost, to each client. In other words, you gain the benefit of the "DeFi" version of App for yourself, by investing a small C x your own cost to run the App for yourself, alone.
scyclow 4y ago
The big difference is that a smart contract is a running, stateful, immutable piece of software. Alternatively, I can run software with an MIT license by myself, but I can always modify the data or API without any approval of the users.
- daveguy 4y ago
  This is interesting. Essentially a reference piece of software where anyone on the network can run the exact same bits (assuming they have compatible hardware). But also the ability to extend or compose where the new system will also have a reference identity. This may have use in defining standards. You could have a standards authority without any actual standards body. Free but standard.
- meltedcapacitor 4y ago
  In practice almost every vaguely live protocol has god mode where some "Sam" can upgrade the contract to whatever they want, because bug risk in immutable contracts is too high (VCs who fund the projects don't want to be sued for bugs). So this becomes functionally equivalent to a SQL server just slow and taking 100x the server capacity.

pjkundert 4y ago

It's like the MIT license, plus AWS with an unlimited account and auto-scaling. In the case of self-hosted Apps (ie. where you need to "install" something on your phone or computer), each peer provides their own compute/storage/networking to host their own usage of the App, plus a small fragment of everyone else's usage (proportional to a few average user's worth). So, the cost to each user is a small constant C times the average user's utilization. And the benefit is that the application persists, in its entirety, as long as any number of users >= 1 continue to use the App.

hestefisk 4y ago
It’s not really an unlimited account. Execution on eth is expensive…
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  It's like AWS serverless compute with inefficiency built-in as a feature and a jacked-up billing rate.
  - daveguy 4y ago
    This concept is very interesting. Is there an existing framework that implements this? It would seem there would need to be some baseline tools for development on such a system. I feel like the tools available for this purpose would need to be more powerful than existing IDE systems in order for it to be adopted on a wide scale. Is it possible to design such a system without a blockchain?
- pjkundert 4y ago
  Yes, in the case of Ethereum "DeFi", the end user is expected to pay the (significant) cost of executing functionality. For next-gen "DeFi" systems like Holochain -- the incremental cost of executing functionality is vanishingly small, and can be distributed across a DHT substrate hosted by all users of the App. A self hosted Holochain "DeFi" app costs a small constant factor C times the average agent's memory / network / storage cost, to each client. In other words, you gain the benefit of the "DeFi" version of App for yourself, by investing a small C x your own cost to run the App for yourself, alone.

scyclow 4y ago

The big difference is that a smart contract is a running, stateful, immutable piece of software. Alternatively, I can run software with an MIT license by myself, but I can always modify the data or API without any approval of the users.

daveguy 4y ago
This is interesting. Essentially a reference piece of software where anyone on the network can run the exact same bits (assuming they have compatible hardware). But also the ability to extend or compose where the new system will also have a reference identity. This may have use in defining standards. You could have a standards authority without any actual standards body. Free but standard.
meltedcapacitor 4y ago
In practice almost every vaguely live protocol has god mode where some "Sam" can upgrade the contract to whatever they want, because bug risk in immutable contracts is too high (VCs who fund the projects don't want to be sued for bugs). So this becomes functionally equivalent to a SQL server just slow and taking 100x the server capacity.