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I think I'm one of the five people on HN who do not hold Zelda as the pinnacle of gaming. To address a few points: 1. Op chooses to compare Zelda (and let's be

I think I'm one of the five people on HN who do not hold Zelda as the pinnacle of gaming. To address a few points: 1. Op chooses to compare Zelda (and let's be clear, this is modern day zelda) to what amount to first gen games. However, comparing modern Zelda to Doom seems a bit unfair. How about The legend of Zelda, which by my count, has 25 items and pick-ups (including sword and shield upgrades). The original Doom, which is continually referred to throughout the piece, has 26 items. 2. Devil May Cry 3 is not a button masher. Go ahead, beat the game, and then tell me you could randomly tap buttons and progress. Just because you are quickly hitting buttons does not mark a game as a masher. 3. I just don't understand the point that is being made. He claims other genres are all just clones of each other and then defines them so loosely that Twisted Metal is now not worth mentioning because, more or less, it is just Gran Turismo... I'm finding that this response is growing rather uncontrollably and frighteningly I could probably write an entire blog response to this article. But, I think this article skims a bigger idea: Unique games stand alone in their respective genres because they bring together multiple disciplines/genres and blend them into a cohesive experience. Some games try to do this (Duke Nukem Forever) and most fail. Others like Zelda, Portal,and GTA succeed and become fan favorites that influence future game designs.

wzdd 15y ago
It's true that The Legend of Zelda has 25 carryable items (see http://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda01-the-legend-of-zelda-items.php http://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda01-the-legend-of-zelda-item...). But it also has a bunch of other items: hearts, heart containers, fairies, pieces of Triforce, blue and red rupees, the magical clock, possibly other things (this is off the top of my head). That's 32 items, which is I think the count in the article. Of those, at least 18 are classes of things (eg "key", "sword", "potion", "health"). Each class has a unique function (almost -- the wand is arguable). By comparison, half of Doom's items are the same class ("gun"), and most of the others fall into one of the two classes "health" and "armour". I think the OP's point is quite well made here: Zelda, even the first one, made in 1986), puts a huge emphasis on unique items and incorporates them into puzzles.
lloeki 15y ago
> I think I'm one of the five people on HN who do not hold Zelda as the pinnacle of gaming. You're not alone, I find the Zelda series a handholding, restricted, and shallow experience. Ironically it's the opposite of what is described here. I've played a bunch of The Legend of Zelda and Zelda II (can't even be bothered to look the name up) on NES, and completed A Link to the Past, Link's Awakening and Ocarina of Time (at that point I just stopped caring) when I was bored playing Chrono Trigger for the nth time (I think it was n=8 or so) or some other games in the corresponding era. The whole time I expected something to happen, really, anything, but there was nothing remotely like the magic countless people recommending them to me seemed to experience. > I'm finding that this response is growing rather uncontrollably and frighteningly I could probably write an entire blog response to this article. I was myself writing a comment earlier that turned into an article draft.
greggman 15y ago
Doom has 26 items? Well, let's see 10 weapons, all of which are really the same weapon with different settings of damage, range, aim, reload, energy so in comparison with Zelda that's really 1 item. Stimpack, Medkit, Security Armor, Combat Armor, Health Potion, Spiritual Armor, Soul Sphere, Mega Sphere are pretty much all variations of the same thing. At most those would count as 2 items in Zelda. The article didn't include Zelda's hearts, or faeries in it's count. Blur Artifact Invulnerability Artifact Ammo (something not counted in the article) That was part of the point of the article. In Zelda that 26 items actually open new and varied game play. They are not just stats variations of the same basic items.

wzdd 15y ago

It's true that The Legend of Zelda has 25 carryable items (see http://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda01-the-legend-of-zelda-items.php http://www.zeldadungeon.net/Zelda01-the-legend-of-zelda-item...). But it also has a bunch of other items: hearts, heart containers, fairies, pieces of Triforce, blue and red rupees, the magical clock, possibly other things (this is off the top of my head). That's 32 items, which is I think the count in the article. Of those, at least 18 are classes of things (eg "key", "sword", "potion", "health"). Each class has a unique function (almost -- the wand is arguable). By comparison, half of Doom's items are the same class ("gun"), and most of the others fall into one of the two classes "health" and "armour". I think the OP's point is quite well made here: Zelda, even the first one, made in 1986), puts a huge emphasis on unique items and incorporates them into puzzles.

lloeki 15y ago

> I think I'm one of the five people on HN who do not hold Zelda as the pinnacle of gaming. You're not alone, I find the Zelda series a handholding, restricted, and shallow experience. Ironically it's the opposite of what is described here. I've played a bunch of The Legend of Zelda and Zelda II (can't even be bothered to look the name up) on NES, and completed A Link to the Past, Link's Awakening and Ocarina of Time (at that point I just stopped caring) when I was bored playing Chrono Trigger for the nth time (I think it was n=8 or so) or some other games in the corresponding era. The whole time I expected something to happen, really, anything, but there was nothing remotely like the magic countless people recommending them to me seemed to experience. > I'm finding that this response is growing rather uncontrollably and frighteningly I could probably write an entire blog response to this article. I was myself writing a comment earlier that turned into an article draft.

greggman 15y ago

Doom has 26 items? Well, let's see 10 weapons, all of which are really the same weapon with different settings of damage, range, aim, reload, energy so in comparison with Zelda that's really 1 item. Stimpack, Medkit, Security Armor, Combat Armor, Health Potion, Spiritual Armor, Soul Sphere, Mega Sphere are pretty much all variations of the same thing. At most those would count as 2 items in Zelda. The article didn't include Zelda's hearts, or faeries in it's count. Blur Artifact Invulnerability Artifact Ammo (something not counted in the article) That was part of the point of the article. In Zelda that 26 items actually open new and varied game play. They are not just stats variations of the same basic items.