6 ms·

I don't know the specifics of japan railways, but generally due to the high amount of trains that run on a single line, being late or early even by a few second

I don't know the specifics of japan railways, but generally due to the high amount of trains that run on a single line, being late or early even by a few seconds can cause other trains to be delayed even more. Timing in this case isn't "time between stopping stations", but "time between checkpoints, which may or may not be stations".

logifail 4y ago
> generally due to the high amount of trains that run on a single line, being late or early even by a few seconds can cause other trains to be delayed even more How many trains per hour run on a single line? EDIT: "At peak times, the line carries up to 16 trains per hour in each direction with 16 cars each (1,323-seat capacity and occasionally additional standing passengers) with a minimum headway of three minutes between trains" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen ) EDIT2: apparently the busiest line in Europe is the Paris-Lyon TGV line, which currently handles 13 trains per hour and is being progressively upgraded to handle 14 trains per hour from 2025, then 16 trains per hour by 2030. ( https://railway-news.com/paris-lyon-high-speed-line-to-get-atlas-ertms-level-2/ https://railway-news.com/paris-lyon-high-speed-line-to-get-a... ) Again, this still doesn't feel like the Shinkansen needs to time departures to the second any more than other busy railway lines do. Apart from that their reputation is that they do?
- atahanacar 4y ago
  >Again, this still doesn't feel like the Shinkansen needs to time departures to the second any more than other busy railway lines do. Apart from that their reputation is that they do? I'm sure reputation and culture plays a huge part in this, but as I said I don't know the specifics of their operation so I can only speculate. When you have multiple lines with many trains serving the same station, the number of platforms you have available at a given time becomes a problem. Also, a train being a few seconds early might cause another train to wait at a switch. There is also the problem with transfers. In Europe, when taking international trains, they take no responsibility if you miss your train because of a delay, unlike airlines. This makes it a huge pain to go to another non-neighboring country by train. I'm aware that this is not an issue of "seconds" but rather minutes or sometimes hours, but imagine missing an appointment by just a few seconds. If your transit is punctual, all the responsibility is yours.
  - logifail 4y ago
    > In Europe, when taking international trains, they take no responsibility if you miss your train because of a delay, unlike airlines Source? If you are ticketed across one or more European borders I believe the train operating companies will take some responsibility, at least in terms of allowing alternative trains without a new ticket. This summer I travelled with my daughter from Paris to Austria, changing in both Mannheim and Munich, and we misconnected in Mannheim and had to take an alternative to our booked train to Munich, and an alternative train from Munich to Kufstein. We were on a "booked trains only" (completely inflexible) ticket, but in both cases a quick conversation with the train staff and having the DB app showing the hugely delayed (booked) train was all that was required.
    - lmm 4y ago
      There's an association of train operators that guarantee that they'll honour your ticket if you miss a connection because of a delay on another one of them, but it's all voluntary rather than having a legal guarantee like you do with flights, and not every European operator is signed up.
      - Symbiote 4y ago
        It's not voluntary at all, it's required by the internation convention concerning the carriage of passengers and luggage by rail: https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%201101/volume-1101-I-16898-English.pdf https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%201101/v... https://help.raileurope.co.uk/article/41665-understanding-civ https://help.raileurope.co.uk/article/41665-understanding-ci...
        lmm 4y ago
        That's only if you have a single through ticket for your whole journey, which is often not possible to buy.
        logifail 4y ago
- ehnto 4y ago
  I think we would need to know how TGV plans to achieve the throughput to make the comparison. It's fair to say tight timing increases throughput, which is one of the strategies JR use to achieve throughput.
- johnwalkr 4y ago
  Why add a logistical nightmare and delays when you don’t have to? I just moved from Japan to Europe and the difference in reliability of the schedule is night and day. And aside from timing of one train leaving, there are express Shinkansen trains that overtake local shinkansen trains at minor stops, I would think it’s not trivial to propagate delays to these timings.
  - logifail 4y ago
    > Why add a logistical nightmare and delays when you don’t have to? I just moved from Japan to Europe and the difference in reliability of the schedule is night and day. I'm still struggling to understand why accepting bicycles for travel would necessarily introduce "[a] logistical nightmare and delays".
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - ehnto 4y ago
      I would love for you to experience the boarding process so you can get a feel for it, and the social stigmas around it too which is where I think you could get an answer to that question. Maybe watch an FPV youtube video of a traveller using the service and take note of the line to board and disembark, take note of the entry way and the luggage area and think about how it would all work with a bike. I think I would bore you writing it all out but my point is just that there is no room for the bike within the train or the social process of participating in the train service. More than one bike and it wouldn't work, so no bikes.
      - logifail 4y ago
        > I would love for you to experience the boarding process so you can get a feel for it, and the social stigmas around it too which is where I think you could get an answer to that question. Maybe watch an FPV youtube video of a traveller using the service and take note of the line to board and disembark, take note of the entry way and the luggage area and think about how it would all work with a bike. Q: How does it work for passengers in wheelchairs? (That is a genuine question, I was recently travelling by tram in Basel, Switzerland, and along with another random stranger pitched in to assist an elderly woman in a wheelchair who was struggling to board, partner wasn't strong enough to manage on his own. The tram doors were nice and wide, but given the height difference between the tram and the platform, a ramp sure would have helped...)

logifail 4y ago

> generally due to the high amount of trains that run on a single line, being late or early even by a few seconds can cause other trains to be delayed even more How many trains per hour run on a single line? EDIT: "At peak times, the line carries up to 16 trains per hour in each direction with 16 cars each (1,323-seat capacity and occasionally additional standing passengers) with a minimum headway of three minutes between trains" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen ) EDIT2: apparently the busiest line in Europe is the Paris-Lyon TGV line, which currently handles 13 trains per hour and is being progressively upgraded to handle 14 trains per hour from 2025, then 16 trains per hour by 2030. ( https://railway-news.com/paris-lyon-high-speed-line-to-get-atlas-ertms-level-2/ https://railway-news.com/paris-lyon-high-speed-line-to-get-a... ) Again, this still doesn't feel like the Shinkansen needs to time departures to the second any more than other busy railway lines do. Apart from that their reputation is that they do?

atahanacar 4y ago
>Again, this still doesn't feel like the Shinkansen needs to time departures to the second any more than other busy railway lines do. Apart from that their reputation is that they do? I'm sure reputation and culture plays a huge part in this, but as I said I don't know the specifics of their operation so I can only speculate. When you have multiple lines with many trains serving the same station, the number of platforms you have available at a given time becomes a problem. Also, a train being a few seconds early might cause another train to wait at a switch. There is also the problem with transfers. In Europe, when taking international trains, they take no responsibility if you miss your train because of a delay, unlike airlines. This makes it a huge pain to go to another non-neighboring country by train. I'm aware that this is not an issue of "seconds" but rather minutes or sometimes hours, but imagine missing an appointment by just a few seconds. If your transit is punctual, all the responsibility is yours.
- logifail 4y ago
  > In Europe, when taking international trains, they take no responsibility if you miss your train because of a delay, unlike airlines Source? If you are ticketed across one or more European borders I believe the train operating companies will take some responsibility, at least in terms of allowing alternative trains without a new ticket. This summer I travelled with my daughter from Paris to Austria, changing in both Mannheim and Munich, and we misconnected in Mannheim and had to take an alternative to our booked train to Munich, and an alternative train from Munich to Kufstein. We were on a "booked trains only" (completely inflexible) ticket, but in both cases a quick conversation with the train staff and having the DB app showing the hugely delayed (booked) train was all that was required.
  - lmm 4y ago
    There's an association of train operators that guarantee that they'll honour your ticket if you miss a connection because of a delay on another one of them, but it's all voluntary rather than having a legal guarantee like you do with flights, and not every European operator is signed up.
    - Symbiote 4y ago
      It's not voluntary at all, it's required by the internation convention concerning the carriage of passengers and luggage by rail: https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%201101/volume-1101-I-16898-English.pdf https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume%201101/v... https://help.raileurope.co.uk/article/41665-understanding-civ https://help.raileurope.co.uk/article/41665-understanding-ci...
      - lmm 4y ago
        That's only if you have a single through ticket for your whole journey, which is often not possible to buy.
        logifail 4y ago
ehnto 4y ago
I think we would need to know how TGV plans to achieve the throughput to make the comparison. It's fair to say tight timing increases throughput, which is one of the strategies JR use to achieve throughput.
johnwalkr 4y ago
Why add a logistical nightmare and delays when you don’t have to? I just moved from Japan to Europe and the difference in reliability of the schedule is night and day. And aside from timing of one train leaving, there are express Shinkansen trains that overtake local shinkansen trains at minor stops, I would think it’s not trivial to propagate delays to these timings.
- logifail 4y ago
  > Why add a logistical nightmare and delays when you don’t have to? I just moved from Japan to Europe and the difference in reliability of the schedule is night and day. I'm still struggling to understand why accepting bicycles for travel would necessarily introduce "[a] logistical nightmare and delays".
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ehnto 4y ago
    I would love for you to experience the boarding process so you can get a feel for it, and the social stigmas around it too which is where I think you could get an answer to that question. Maybe watch an FPV youtube video of a traveller using the service and take note of the line to board and disembark, take note of the entry way and the luggage area and think about how it would all work with a bike. I think I would bore you writing it all out but my point is just that there is no room for the bike within the train or the social process of participating in the train service. More than one bike and it wouldn't work, so no bikes.
    - logifail 4y ago
      > I would love for you to experience the boarding process so you can get a feel for it, and the social stigmas around it too which is where I think you could get an answer to that question. Maybe watch an FPV youtube video of a traveller using the service and take note of the line to board and disembark, take note of the entry way and the luggage area and think about how it would all work with a bike. Q: How does it work for passengers in wheelchairs? (That is a genuine question, I was recently travelling by tram in Basel, Switzerland, and along with another random stranger pitched in to assist an elderly woman in a wheelchair who was struggling to board, partner wasn't strong enough to manage on his own. The tram doors were nice and wide, but given the height difference between the tram and the platform, a ramp sure would have helped...)