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> The timing is critical on the shinkansen Why? Is this about needing to be on time primarily because there's a reputation to maintain, or would bad things ha

> The timing is critical on the shinkansen Why? Is this about needing to be on time primarily because there's a reputation to maintain, or would bad things happen if one runs late?

markdown 4y ago
Because everyone wants to arrive on time.
- logifail 4y ago
  > Because everyone wants to arrive on time I don't believe this requirement is specific to the shinkansen, to Japan, or even to travelling by train.
  - ehnto 4y ago
    Maybe you're trying to find a firm technical requirement for such tight timing, but they don't need one. In a sense the above comment is right, they (JR) just want it. One of their goals is to strive for such efficiency and punctuality so that the service is better overall, and so in your original comment I guess the answer is both that things would fall apart if the timing got messed up, and also that it's part of the reputation and one of the goals of their service. It's worth noting that JR is a series of privatized companies, which is notable because they're profitable as well. I imagine efficiency plays a pretty big role in that too.
    - logifail 4y ago
      > Maybe you're trying to find a firm technical requirement for such tight timing, but they don't need one. In a sense the above comment is right, they (JR) just want it. What happens if someone in a wheelchair wants to travel? > One of their goals is to strive for such efficiency and punctuality so that the service is better overall [..] Well, unless you happen to want to travel with a bicycle, that is. Punctuality is great, but punctuality above all else can't help but have consequences, and some of those might be quite significant negatives for some travellers. > It's worth noting that JR is a series of privatized companies, which is notable because they're profitable as well No snark intended, and I know very little about Japan or its railways, but as with so many things, if you can persuade someone else to pay for the construction of your infrastructure then profitability is significantly easier: "The costs for construction of new high-speed railway (except Chuo Shinkansen which is mainly paid by JR Central) are shared by national government and local governments along the line. National government pays 2/3 of construction costs, local governments bear the rest of it." ( https://www.mlit.go.jp/kokusai/itf/policy_001.html https://www.mlit.go.jp/kokusai/itf/policy_001.html )
      - johnwalkr 4y ago
        If you’re in a wheelchair, staff will assist you with a ramp when boarding, and they will arrange for someone to be waiting with a ramp at your destination station. And you can take a bike, it’s just has to be in a bag. Inside the bag, you’re supposed to have the front wheel and pedals removed (in practice people don’t remove pedals), and the handlebars turned 90 degrees. It works fine so what you’re really arguing is for tolerating delays, reducing capacity and inconveniencing everyone else just to make it extra convenient to bring a bike on board. It’s like arguing that you should be able to bring your bike on as a carry-on in a flight.
  - markdown 4y ago
    So the question isn't why the shinkansen has that requirement, but why every other transportation service doesn't.
atahanacar 4y ago
I don't know the specifics of japan railways, but generally due to the high amount of trains that run on a single line, being late or early even by a few seconds can cause other trains to be delayed even more. Timing in this case isn't "time between stopping stations", but "time between checkpoints, which may or may not be stations".
- logifail 4y ago
  > generally due to the high amount of trains that run on a single line, being late or early even by a few seconds can cause other trains to be delayed even more How many trains per hour run on a single line? EDIT: "At peak times, the line carries up to 16 trains per hour in each direction with 16 cars each (1,323-seat capacity and occasionally additional standing passengers) with a minimum headway of three minutes between trains" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen ) EDIT2: apparently the busiest line in Europe is the Paris-Lyon TGV line, which currently handles 13 trains per hour and is being progressively upgraded to handle 14 trains per hour from 2025, then 16 trains per hour by 2030. ( https://railway-news.com/paris-lyon-high-speed-line-to-get-atlas-ertms-level-2/ https://railway-news.com/paris-lyon-high-speed-line-to-get-a... ) Again, this still doesn't feel like the Shinkansen needs to time departures to the second any more than other busy railway lines do. Apart from that their reputation is that they do?
  - atahanacar 4y ago
    >Again, this still doesn't feel like the Shinkansen needs to time departures to the second any more than other busy railway lines do. Apart from that their reputation is that they do? I'm sure reputation and culture plays a huge part in this, but as I said I don't know the specifics of their operation so I can only speculate. When you have multiple lines with many trains serving the same station, the number of platforms you have available at a given time becomes a problem. Also, a train being a few seconds early might cause another train to wait at a switch. There is also the problem with transfers. In Europe, when taking international trains, they take no responsibility if you miss your train because of a delay, unlike airlines. This makes it a huge pain to go to another non-neighboring country by train. I'm aware that this is not an issue of "seconds" but rather minutes or sometimes hours, but imagine missing an appointment by just a few seconds. If your transit is punctual, all the responsibility is yours.
ehnto 4y ago
Scheduling, at peak time trains can arrive once every three minutes (across a handful of platforms, but they need to leave via the same lines). So you can imagine someone faffing about with their bicycle for 5 minutes causing a national network delay would be somewhat of an embarrassing situation. It's hard to explain how excellent the punctuality is, it essentially wastes none of your time. You don't sit at junctions, you don't have to wait for a platform to free up, you never miss your train because it left early. Everyone is already lined up by their respective cars, ready to board the moment the train is available to board. So within 5-10 minutes, your train has arrived, people have disembarked, you have boarded, and your train has left. Remembering this is an intercity train network, so it'd be like being able to arrive at the airport with your ticket, board the plane, and take off, within 10 minutes.
- logifail 4y ago
  > So within 5-10 minutes, your train has arrived, people have disembarked, you have boarded, and your train has left Isn't this pretty standard SOP for how long-distance trains stop at intermediate stations around the world? I've recently travelled in Germany and Austria and their ICE and Railjet trains, respectively, have stops of only 2-3 minutes at a majority of intermediate stations.
  - Symbiote 4y ago
    GP seems to be from Australia, where a random timetable I found shows a Sydney-Canberra train has 10-25 minute stops at various stations -- I assume the larger ones. I've experienced the same on trains in the USA. It's called "dwell time" if you want to Google, but in Europe I'd guess - at many stations it's around 1 minute - at large towns it can be 2-3 minutes, especially if it's likely many people will board/alight - at the very largest through stations it can be 5-10 minutes. That would be somewhere you might expect half the passengers (or more) to change, like Berlin or Madrid. Metro and commuter trains have more doors to make boarding/alighting faster. Long-distance trains have fewer doors to make the interior quieter and more comfortable.
    - 4y ago

> The timing is critical on the shinkansen Why? Is this about needing to be on time primarily because there's a reputation to maintain, or would bad things happen if one runs late?

markdown 4y ago

Because everyone wants to arrive on time.

logifail 4y ago
> Because everyone wants to arrive on time I don't believe this requirement is specific to the shinkansen, to Japan, or even to travelling by train.
- ehnto 4y ago
  Maybe you're trying to find a firm technical requirement for such tight timing, but they don't need one. In a sense the above comment is right, they (JR) just want it. One of their goals is to strive for such efficiency and punctuality so that the service is better overall, and so in your original comment I guess the answer is both that things would fall apart if the timing got messed up, and also that it's part of the reputation and one of the goals of their service. It's worth noting that JR is a series of privatized companies, which is notable because they're profitable as well. I imagine efficiency plays a pretty big role in that too.
  - logifail 4y ago
    > Maybe you're trying to find a firm technical requirement for such tight timing, but they don't need one. In a sense the above comment is right, they (JR) just want it. What happens if someone in a wheelchair wants to travel? > One of their goals is to strive for such efficiency and punctuality so that the service is better overall [..] Well, unless you happen to want to travel with a bicycle, that is. Punctuality is great, but punctuality above all else can't help but have consequences, and some of those might be quite significant negatives for some travellers. > It's worth noting that JR is a series of privatized companies, which is notable because they're profitable as well No snark intended, and I know very little about Japan or its railways, but as with so many things, if you can persuade someone else to pay for the construction of your infrastructure then profitability is significantly easier: "The costs for construction of new high-speed railway (except Chuo Shinkansen which is mainly paid by JR Central) are shared by national government and local governments along the line. National government pays 2/3 of construction costs, local governments bear the rest of it." ( https://www.mlit.go.jp/kokusai/itf/policy_001.html https://www.mlit.go.jp/kokusai/itf/policy_001.html )
    - johnwalkr 4y ago
      If you’re in a wheelchair, staff will assist you with a ramp when boarding, and they will arrange for someone to be waiting with a ramp at your destination station. And you can take a bike, it’s just has to be in a bag. Inside the bag, you’re supposed to have the front wheel and pedals removed (in practice people don’t remove pedals), and the handlebars turned 90 degrees. It works fine so what you’re really arguing is for tolerating delays, reducing capacity and inconveniencing everyone else just to make it extra convenient to bring a bike on board. It’s like arguing that you should be able to bring your bike on as a carry-on in a flight.
- markdown 4y ago
  So the question isn't why the shinkansen has that requirement, but why every other transportation service doesn't.

atahanacar 4y ago

I don't know the specifics of japan railways, but generally due to the high amount of trains that run on a single line, being late or early even by a few seconds can cause other trains to be delayed even more. Timing in this case isn't "time between stopping stations", but "time between checkpoints, which may or may not be stations".

logifail 4y ago
> generally due to the high amount of trains that run on a single line, being late or early even by a few seconds can cause other trains to be delayed even more How many trains per hour run on a single line? EDIT: "At peak times, the line carries up to 16 trains per hour in each direction with 16 cars each (1,323-seat capacity and occasionally additional standing passengers) with a minimum headway of three minutes between trains" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen ) EDIT2: apparently the busiest line in Europe is the Paris-Lyon TGV line, which currently handles 13 trains per hour and is being progressively upgraded to handle 14 trains per hour from 2025, then 16 trains per hour by 2030. ( https://railway-news.com/paris-lyon-high-speed-line-to-get-atlas-ertms-level-2/ https://railway-news.com/paris-lyon-high-speed-line-to-get-a... ) Again, this still doesn't feel like the Shinkansen needs to time departures to the second any more than other busy railway lines do. Apart from that their reputation is that they do?
- atahanacar 4y ago
  >Again, this still doesn't feel like the Shinkansen needs to time departures to the second any more than other busy railway lines do. Apart from that their reputation is that they do? I'm sure reputation and culture plays a huge part in this, but as I said I don't know the specifics of their operation so I can only speculate. When you have multiple lines with many trains serving the same station, the number of platforms you have available at a given time becomes a problem. Also, a train being a few seconds early might cause another train to wait at a switch. There is also the problem with transfers. In Europe, when taking international trains, they take no responsibility if you miss your train because of a delay, unlike airlines. This makes it a huge pain to go to another non-neighboring country by train. I'm aware that this is not an issue of "seconds" but rather minutes or sometimes hours, but imagine missing an appointment by just a few seconds. If your transit is punctual, all the responsibility is yours.

ehnto 4y ago

Scheduling, at peak time trains can arrive once every three minutes (across a handful of platforms, but they need to leave via the same lines). So you can imagine someone faffing about with their bicycle for 5 minutes causing a national network delay would be somewhat of an embarrassing situation. It's hard to explain how excellent the punctuality is, it essentially wastes none of your time. You don't sit at junctions, you don't have to wait for a platform to free up, you never miss your train because it left early. Everyone is already lined up by their respective cars, ready to board the moment the train is available to board. So within 5-10 minutes, your train has arrived, people have disembarked, you have boarded, and your train has left. Remembering this is an intercity train network, so it'd be like being able to arrive at the airport with your ticket, board the plane, and take off, within 10 minutes.

logifail 4y ago
> So within 5-10 minutes, your train has arrived, people have disembarked, you have boarded, and your train has left Isn't this pretty standard SOP for how long-distance trains stop at intermediate stations around the world? I've recently travelled in Germany and Austria and their ICE and Railjet trains, respectively, have stops of only 2-3 minutes at a majority of intermediate stations.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  GP seems to be from Australia, where a random timetable I found shows a Sydney-Canberra train has 10-25 minute stops at various stations -- I assume the larger ones. I've experienced the same on trains in the USA. It's called "dwell time" if you want to Google, but in Europe I'd guess - at many stations it's around 1 minute - at large towns it can be 2-3 minutes, especially if it's likely many people will board/alight - at the very largest through stations it can be 5-10 minutes. That would be somewhere you might expect half the passengers (or more) to change, like Berlin or Madrid. Metro and commuter trains have more doors to make boarding/alighting faster. Long-distance trains have fewer doors to make the interior quieter and more comfortable.
  - 4y ago