4 ms·

Slightly tangential but this reminds me of the short story "Harrison Bergeron" by Kurt Vonnegut [1]: > In the year 2081, the 211th, 212th, and 213th amendments

Slightly tangential but this reminds me of the short story "Harrison Bergeron" by Kurt Vonnegut [1]: > In the year 2081, the 211th, 212th, and 213th amendments to the Constitution dictate that all Americans are fully equal and not allowed to be smarter, better-looking, or more physically able than anyone else. The Handicapper General's agents enforce the equality laws, forcing citizens to wear "handicaps": masks for those who are too beautiful, loud radios that disrupt thoughts inside the ears of intelligent people, and heavy weights for the strong or athletic. [2] [1] https://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html https://www.tnellen.com/cybereng/harrison.html [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrison_Bergeron

schneems 4y ago
> Slightly tangential That's a little more than slightly. I've got no clue what in the article brought that up for you or how you're relating it back.
- selcuka 4y ago
  Maybe the excerpt from the Wikipedia article I used was a bit too subtle, but the similarity is, in the story they are using random noise coming through earphones to suppress thoughts ("loud radios that disrupt thoughts inside the ears of intelligent people").
- Skgqie1 4y ago
  I think the background noise the old guy has to listen to (I can kind of see it relating to brown noise)
- Eleison23 4y ago
  ADHD is a "disorder" that is predicated on "this person's behavior annoys people around him and therefore should be corrected." ADHD is only a disorder because human pegs must be pounded into the square holes of class in a sterile schoolroom behind bars, during daylight hours for much of the year, in preparation for white-collar office jobs that many of them won't achieve, but nevertheless you must sit down, pay attention to lectures and study irrelevant things. And if you can't pay attention, don't take away their computers, video games, or reduce their screen time, just pump them full of amphetamines until they're so drowsy during the day they're just struggling to fall asleep. ADHD is very Harrison Bergeron, and the schizophrenic Vonnegut knew exactly what he was writing about.
  - seba_dos1 4y ago
    You usually "pump yourself full of amphetamines" to be able to sleep, calm down and focus, not the other way around.
  - annie_muss 4y ago
    I strongly disagree with this opinion, even though it is sadly common. Go speak to an adult with ADHD, listen to them and find out the real pain and anguish experienced by someone with ADHD. Many people desperately want to do well in school, have a career and successful relationships but are held back by their disorder. Instead, they experience joblessness, poor human relationships and unfulfilled dreams. People with diagnoses in later life experience genuine grief. The medication and counseling can help a lot, but it can't fix a divorce 10 years ago or getting fired repeatedly. The damage is done.
    - devmor 4y ago
      I am halfway between agreeing with both of you. There are many symptoms of ADHD that I consider severe impairments - especially the short term memory loss. However there are symptoms of it that I prefer over my state of my mind while medicated. The freedom of direction of thought is much more pleasant than the drive to focus intensely on one task - but is simply at odds with the world around me driven by productivity.
      - SyzygistSix 4y ago
        That isn't an issue for me when I am medicated. When medicated I have the ability to choose whether to focus or not, unlike when I am not medicated and focus is elusive at best.
        devmor 4y ago
        Different experiences I suppose. When medicated, focus is forced upon me. I have to be very diligent about setting alarms lest I end up working long past the time I have designated.
  - 4y ago
mxkopy 4y ago
I don't have any sources other than anecdotal, but I'm under the impression many are diagnosed with ADHD as a result of behavior shown in school. It's almost like, ADHD is the disease you have when you're "unable to do consistent & focused work". Obviously medically it's some dysfunction in dopamine regulation, but how many underpaid overworked teachers/parents have access to equipment that would actually measure that? Maybe some kids are gasp bored in school, or shudder don't mesh with the thought-system of menial productivity the school -> work pipeline tries to instill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js4NiTFq9Pw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js4NiTFq9Pw
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  Speaking as an adult diagnosee, whose diagnosis had nothing to do with the behavioral problems in the DSM other than finding a way to fit my actual symptoms to diagnostic criteria, with a caring and mindful intake doctor and then a psychiatrist… I agree the diagnostics are unhelpful. I think takes like this are equally if not more unhelpful. I definitely struggled with boredom and didn’t mesh with the design of my educational programs… but I also struggled intensely with anxiety and depression, both very deeply rooted in my ADHD experience. I struggled with them for decades before I understood what my experience was and found helpful treatment. I may well have suffered a much less severe and much shorter time had I not had a parent who was just as dismissive of the actual disorder I experience. Your take is the same as the diagnostics: attributing it to externally observed childhood behavior that doesn’t suit adults. Meanwhile adults with undiagnosed and untreated ADHD experience higher anxiety and depression, higher suicide rates, higher rates of substance abuse. We’re permanently in a state of trauma. Instead of rescuing kids from symptoms assigned to them by adults, if you want to help kids with ADHD, help them have a voice about what they feel and need.
  - mxkopy 4y ago
    The idea that an ADHD diagnosis can be a band-aid over a deeper personal or societal problem isn't a very unhelpful one, considering that it can reveal, you know, deeper issues. I'm not saying all ADHD diagnoses are false. My prescription will always be, do whatever helps you. If a kid says ADHD meds/accomodations help them with no problems, then I'm very supportive of continuing that. But if others have been on and quit the meds even before adulthood, and they still feel unable to focus/depressed/etc., maybe we should consider that the problem isn't in their body.

schneems 4y ago

> Slightly tangential That's a little more than slightly. I've got no clue what in the article brought that up for you or how you're relating it back.

selcuka 4y ago
Maybe the excerpt from the Wikipedia article I used was a bit too subtle, but the similarity is, in the story they are using random noise coming through earphones to suppress thoughts ("loud radios that disrupt thoughts inside the ears of intelligent people").
Skgqie1 4y ago
I think the background noise the old guy has to listen to (I can kind of see it relating to brown noise)
Eleison23 4y ago
ADHD is a "disorder" that is predicated on "this person's behavior annoys people around him and therefore should be corrected." ADHD is only a disorder because human pegs must be pounded into the square holes of class in a sterile schoolroom behind bars, during daylight hours for much of the year, in preparation for white-collar office jobs that many of them won't achieve, but nevertheless you must sit down, pay attention to lectures and study irrelevant things. And if you can't pay attention, don't take away their computers, video games, or reduce their screen time, just pump them full of amphetamines until they're so drowsy during the day they're just struggling to fall asleep. ADHD is very Harrison Bergeron, and the schizophrenic Vonnegut knew exactly what he was writing about.
- seba_dos1 4y ago
  You usually "pump yourself full of amphetamines" to be able to sleep, calm down and focus, not the other way around.
- annie_muss 4y ago
  I strongly disagree with this opinion, even though it is sadly common. Go speak to an adult with ADHD, listen to them and find out the real pain and anguish experienced by someone with ADHD. Many people desperately want to do well in school, have a career and successful relationships but are held back by their disorder. Instead, they experience joblessness, poor human relationships and unfulfilled dreams. People with diagnoses in later life experience genuine grief. The medication and counseling can help a lot, but it can't fix a divorce 10 years ago or getting fired repeatedly. The damage is done.
  - devmor 4y ago
    I am halfway between agreeing with both of you. There are many symptoms of ADHD that I consider severe impairments - especially the short term memory loss. However there are symptoms of it that I prefer over my state of my mind while medicated. The freedom of direction of thought is much more pleasant than the drive to focus intensely on one task - but is simply at odds with the world around me driven by productivity.
    - SyzygistSix 4y ago
      That isn't an issue for me when I am medicated. When medicated I have the ability to choose whether to focus or not, unlike when I am not medicated and focus is elusive at best.
      - devmor 4y ago
        Different experiences I suppose. When medicated, focus is forced upon me. I have to be very diligent about setting alarms lest I end up working long past the time I have designated.
- 4y ago

mxkopy 4y ago

I don't have any sources other than anecdotal, but I'm under the impression many are diagnosed with ADHD as a result of behavior shown in school. It's almost like, ADHD is the disease you have when you're "unable to do consistent & focused work". Obviously medically it's some dysfunction in dopamine regulation, but how many underpaid overworked teachers/parents have access to equipment that would actually measure that? Maybe some kids are gasp bored in school, or shudder don't mesh with the thought-system of menial productivity the school -> work pipeline tries to instill. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js4NiTFq9Pw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Js4NiTFq9Pw

eyelidlessness 4y ago
Speaking as an adult diagnosee, whose diagnosis had nothing to do with the behavioral problems in the DSM other than finding a way to fit my actual symptoms to diagnostic criteria, with a caring and mindful intake doctor and then a psychiatrist… I agree the diagnostics are unhelpful. I think takes like this are equally if not more unhelpful. I definitely struggled with boredom and didn’t mesh with the design of my educational programs… but I also struggled intensely with anxiety and depression, both very deeply rooted in my ADHD experience. I struggled with them for decades before I understood what my experience was and found helpful treatment. I may well have suffered a much less severe and much shorter time had I not had a parent who was just as dismissive of the actual disorder I experience. Your take is the same as the diagnostics: attributing it to externally observed childhood behavior that doesn’t suit adults. Meanwhile adults with undiagnosed and untreated ADHD experience higher anxiety and depression, higher suicide rates, higher rates of substance abuse. We’re permanently in a state of trauma. Instead of rescuing kids from symptoms assigned to them by adults, if you want to help kids with ADHD, help them have a voice about what they feel and need.
- mxkopy 4y ago
  The idea that an ADHD diagnosis can be a band-aid over a deeper personal or societal problem isn't a very unhelpful one, considering that it can reveal, you know, deeper issues. I'm not saying all ADHD diagnoses are false. My prescription will always be, do whatever helps you. If a kid says ADHD meds/accomodations help them with no problems, then I'm very supportive of continuing that. But if others have been on and quit the meds even before adulthood, and they still feel unable to focus/depressed/etc., maybe we should consider that the problem isn't in their body.