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So, philosophical question here: Human zoos are racist and wrong, right? How is leaving uncontacted tribes alone to live in isolation (but under remote observat

So, philosophical question here: Human zoos are racist and wrong, right? How is leaving uncontacted tribes alone to live in isolation (but under remote observation) any different? Fun diversions include: the prime directive from star trek and potential diseases spreading from first contact being equivalent to genocide. I think that in the end, none of debate will matter and that all remaining tribes will either be dead or clumsily brought into civilization without regard for ethics.

lazide 4y ago
Zoos are artificial environments constructed to put things on exhibit outside of their natural environment for the education and entertainment of others. A preserve is an area carved out to prohibit the others from going in and screwing with someone or something. So basically, they’re polar opposites.
- MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
  If we had a nature preserve filled with human beings that are unaware of the modern world, left to their own devices and hard lives, the difference in ethics is the entertainment factor? Say their lives aren't broadcast for consumption, is that okay? What about 10, 100 or even 1,000 years from now?
  - lazide 4y ago
    Were they there before without anyone going out of there way to put them there artificially? If so, then yup, perfectly fine.
  - andrewflnr 4y ago
    The primary difference in ethics is whether you've forcibly relocated them. You're picking a really weird aspect of the human zoo thing to fixate on and ignoring the huge flashing sign that says "liberty". There's really no good reason to compare the scenarios. I'm a fan of Hanlon's Razor but this is the kind of obtuseness that raises genuine questions of whether you're speaking in good faith.
    - MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
      Where is the liberty though? By definition, a native from an uncontacted tribe can't make an informed choice.
      - mlyle 4y ago
        He refused contact with outsiders. Would you have preferred that he had been forcibly contacted and educated, to make an "informed" choice, in the name of his liberty and/or autonomy?
        lazide 4y ago
        Based on other replies in the thread, it seems clear that some folks do indeed believe that.
      - zach_garwood 4y ago
        How do you figure? Every day they make the choice to live like they do, just like you make the choice to live in your town doing whatever it is you do. If you wanted to live a different lifestyle, you could pick a direction, go there, and live like the people there. They choose not to. That sounds like liberty to me.
        luckylion 4y ago
        What? Stone age people made "a choice" to live in the stone age? Could they have just chosen to live in the space age instead? How does that work?
        lazide 4y ago
        I’m not sure how you figure. In the scenario you’re describing (a walled off preserve), said folks could decide to join ‘the space age’ by walking to the next valley if they wanted to. And that is someone Stone Age folks did regularly, walk to other valleys. In the real Stone Age, that means they see another group of Stone Age folks. In the space age scenario, that means they get exposure to some space age stuff. So they’d be making the choice to stay, by staying, if they don’t do that. No one is building a fence to keep them in, just like no one was working to keep ‘the man of the hole’ in. If someone does make a fenced off area around them that is impossible to escape, then sure that could be a problem. It’s a prison then. But that’s not what anyone is proposing I can see. They were just working to keep others from going in and screwing with him. He knew there were others out there, he just didn’t want to be bothered - and they were trying to help him do that.
  - zach_garwood 4y ago
    This is veering into White Man's Burden territory.
chki 4y ago
There are many differences but first and foremost: the purpose of human zoos was entertainment, in this case it was to protect (and potentially scientific enquiry)
- lelandfe 4y ago
  For others who, like me, had no idea these were ever a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_zoo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_zoo Jeeze.
googlryas 4y ago
These people usually know exactly how to get to civilization if they wanted to. Many have "walked out" of the forest and into civilization, and they generally become what people would recognize as bums and layabouts since they have basically no skills that are relevant to city life. And they're observed remotely merely to help ensure that violent people don't disturb them - making sure they aren't killed or driven to civilization unless they want to go.

lazide 4y ago

Zoos are artificial environments constructed to put things on exhibit outside of their natural environment for the education and entertainment of others. A preserve is an area carved out to prohibit the others from going in and screwing with someone or something. So basically, they’re polar opposites.

MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
If we had a nature preserve filled with human beings that are unaware of the modern world, left to their own devices and hard lives, the difference in ethics is the entertainment factor? Say their lives aren't broadcast for consumption, is that okay? What about 10, 100 or even 1,000 years from now?
- lazide 4y ago
  Were they there before without anyone going out of there way to put them there artificially? If so, then yup, perfectly fine.
- andrewflnr 4y ago
  The primary difference in ethics is whether you've forcibly relocated them. You're picking a really weird aspect of the human zoo thing to fixate on and ignoring the huge flashing sign that says "liberty". There's really no good reason to compare the scenarios. I'm a fan of Hanlon's Razor but this is the kind of obtuseness that raises genuine questions of whether you're speaking in good faith.
  - MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
    Where is the liberty though? By definition, a native from an uncontacted tribe can't make an informed choice.
    - mlyle 4y ago
      He refused contact with outsiders. Would you have preferred that he had been forcibly contacted and educated, to make an "informed" choice, in the name of his liberty and/or autonomy?
      - lazide 4y ago
        Based on other replies in the thread, it seems clear that some folks do indeed believe that.
    - zach_garwood 4y ago
      How do you figure? Every day they make the choice to live like they do, just like you make the choice to live in your town doing whatever it is you do. If you wanted to live a different lifestyle, you could pick a direction, go there, and live like the people there. They choose not to. That sounds like liberty to me.
      - luckylion 4y ago
        What? Stone age people made "a choice" to live in the stone age? Could they have just chosen to live in the space age instead? How does that work?
        lazide 4y ago
        I’m not sure how you figure. In the scenario you’re describing (a walled off preserve), said folks could decide to join ‘the space age’ by walking to the next valley if they wanted to. And that is someone Stone Age folks did regularly, walk to other valleys. In the real Stone Age, that means they see another group of Stone Age folks. In the space age scenario, that means they get exposure to some space age stuff. So they’d be making the choice to stay, by staying, if they don’t do that. No one is building a fence to keep them in, just like no one was working to keep ‘the man of the hole’ in. If someone does make a fenced off area around them that is impossible to escape, then sure that could be a problem. It’s a prison then. But that’s not what anyone is proposing I can see. They were just working to keep others from going in and screwing with him. He knew there were others out there, he just didn’t want to be bothered - and they were trying to help him do that.
- zach_garwood 4y ago
  This is veering into White Man's Burden territory.

chki 4y ago

There are many differences but first and foremost: the purpose of human zoos was entertainment, in this case it was to protect (and potentially scientific enquiry)

lelandfe 4y ago
For others who, like me, had no idea these were ever a thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_zoo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_zoo Jeeze.

googlryas 4y ago

These people usually know exactly how to get to civilization if they wanted to. Many have "walked out" of the forest and into civilization, and they generally become what people would recognize as bums and layabouts since they have basically no skills that are relevant to city life. And they're observed remotely merely to help ensure that violent people don't disturb them - making sure they aren't killed or driven to civilization unless they want to go.