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The gaming industry seems to have been moving away from loot boxes recently. Overwatch and Call of Duty have both stopped using them (replaced with a battle pas

The gaming industry seems to have been moving away from loot boxes recently. Overwatch and Call of Duty have both stopped using them (replaced with a battle pass subscription with fixed rewards). TBH I think it's kind of a shame because I never had a problem with this sort of thing for cosmetic only rewards. It's fun to crack them open and see what you get and it doesn't give you any sort of advantage over other players because it's all cosmetic. Mobile games where the lootboxes contain stuff you actually need to progress in the game (and often require you to spend hundreds or thousands to get to the upper tiers of power/content) are a whole different story but thankfully that doesn't seem to have corrupted the PC/Console gaming space yet. Are there any big AAA PC/Console games that still use these mechanics? Fifa/Madden I'm assuming but I'm also out of the loop and haven't played a Fifa game since like 2018.

vogt 4y ago
The gaming industry has moved away primarily because legislation has been getting passed in countries like Japan and China forbidding lootboxes in games. It's been a hot topic off and on in Congress and Parliaments around the world for a few years now and I assume game developers are (of course) skittish about it. To your point about cosmetic-only though, that still exists. Rocket League, which I play regularly, gives out boxes you open and get a random cosmetic with varying degrees of rarity. You can get a net larger amount of these cosmetic boxes by paying for the Rocket Pass premium (something like $10 a season). But the loot boxes only ever contain skins, wheels, etc.
- p1necone 4y ago
  The Overwatch lootboxes were purely cosmetic too. The Call of Duty ones weren't. The new CoD battle pass isn't entirely cosmetic either, but the worst it does is give you faster access to weapons that you could have unlocked through regular gameplay for free.
- fomine3 4y ago
  There's still no law for lootboxes in Japan (but have some regulation by industry) so many gacha games still being released. Discussion at congress is minor AFAIK. I suspect that China also haven't completely forbid lootboxes at least, since they also still operate such games. (But anyway China strictly manages releasing games)
  - b4je7d7wb 4y ago
    Netherlands is perhaps the furthest in the process. I think at least lost ark is not available in steam for dutch users.
    - l3uwin 4y ago
      You know you went too far when the dutch are looking at you thinking 'hmm that's too much gambling' from their boat casino And they're correct lmao
    - braymundo 4y ago
      Correct. Diablo Immortal was not even launched here because of this.
- AtlasBarfed 4y ago
  Why isn't it, and the atrocious conduct of pat to win games a bigger deal here? Chest china has more sense and integrity than our government
vikingerik 4y ago
Well, there's the online-CCG industry. Magic and Hearthstone and the others are all lootbox, with varying allowances of being able to grind it in the free tier.
- kriro 4y ago
  I can only speak for MTG Arena. Been playing it 100% for free since a bit before DMU came out. I play pretty much the number of games that give me stuff, often 4 wins/day because I don't have time to play more. Mythic in Standard is possible (played cheap monoblue last season to diamond 1, mono black now almost mythic) and having some fun drafting. 0% need to invest any money. Obvioulsy I won't have all the stuff but that's fine. I'm ok with identifying one deck I like to play for standard and then just drafting until coins/gems run out (ideally never because the winrate is good enough). I also don't care at all about cosmetics and was happy to see there's even an option to turn them sort of off (hide alternate card styles). I still got quite a lot of free cosmetics as well. It is however interesting that they do have a pretty good value "first buy" option. I was always curious if it is priced so cheaply to get people from a "I'm a free player mindset" to...well payed once, might as well buy more now (+the friction of setting up payment is gone). I'm an avid board gamer and I can say very confidently that I would never get into any paper based CCG because the pricing/collection is just ridiculous to me. If it wasn't for the free to play online veryion, I wouldn't play magic (I did buy some of the stuff back in the college days but quickly realized what a money sink this would be). I do/did collected some LCGs and still rank Android Netrunner as one of the best gaming experiences in my life.
prawn 4y ago
I have a problem with the cosmetic stuff also as it's especially sticky for younger players. My son plays Fortnite and I think a lot about the variety of games I played while growing up, while a huge share of his gaming is the story-lite and constantly restyling Fortnite. I admire the strategy and the creativity that goes into reinventing it, but I also wonder if this will mean he misses both the diversity and also story-heavy classics from my childhood and onwards. All while chasing gold guns and dance moves.
- noduerme 4y ago
  The addiction to things like Fortnite is stronger than any addiction I've ever seen - and I mean this as a casino owner who watched and often banned people struggling with gambling addiction. It's of a different quality and on another level. Your blackjack addict is essentially a fully grown human who has transmuted his sense of rejection into a wish to lose on cards and thus gain a sense of release, or absolution, having been rejected one more time by the gods of fate. A Fortnite addict is on the make and believes in some ephemeral salvation that might be experienced by temporary success. The former knows when to quit, or at least is encouraged to do so. The latter has hope. The nastiest thing about gambling marketing is selling hope... it should be banned. Yet somehow when you can't win anything at all, it's fine to sell it.
  - prawn 4y ago
    One thing that doesn't help is that Fortnite is 'juiced' beyond almost anything ever before it. So if you try to pitch your kids trying a different game (say, with a clever mechanic or thought-provoking story), it is harder for that game to compete.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - p1necone 4y ago
      Eh, I don't think arguing that really good animation/sound/art design being a bad thing somehow is a line of reasoning that results in sensible outcomes. Be wary of predatory monetization techniques yes, but a bunch of people playing Fortnite because it's a fun, well designed game is not a bad thing. (I deleted a comment where I worded the same thing much less eloquently. I'll keep the incredulous hostility to the one comment in this thread)
leetcrew 4y ago
doesn't fit the AAA definition, but counterstrike is very popular and has a f2p + cosmetic-only items for purchase. I can see how the mechanics around lootboxes specifically can be problematic, but overall, f2p + paid skins seems like a pretty good business model for a game. no one is priced out of the base game, which is a) just nice in general, and b) leads to a healthy playerbase size. the people that care the most end up funding the ongoing support, and the developer is incentivized to make the base game enjoyable enough to be worth purchasing skins for.
- girvo 4y ago
  CS:GO is a bad example with the Valve-ignored gambling that exists for it, due to the skins having real world monetary tradable value.

vogt 4y ago

The gaming industry has moved away primarily because legislation has been getting passed in countries like Japan and China forbidding lootboxes in games. It's been a hot topic off and on in Congress and Parliaments around the world for a few years now and I assume game developers are (of course) skittish about it. To your point about cosmetic-only though, that still exists. Rocket League, which I play regularly, gives out boxes you open and get a random cosmetic with varying degrees of rarity. You can get a net larger amount of these cosmetic boxes by paying for the Rocket Pass premium (something like $10 a season). But the loot boxes only ever contain skins, wheels, etc.

p1necone 4y ago
The Overwatch lootboxes were purely cosmetic too. The Call of Duty ones weren't. The new CoD battle pass isn't entirely cosmetic either, but the worst it does is give you faster access to weapons that you could have unlocked through regular gameplay for free.
fomine3 4y ago
There's still no law for lootboxes in Japan (but have some regulation by industry) so many gacha games still being released. Discussion at congress is minor AFAIK. I suspect that China also haven't completely forbid lootboxes at least, since they also still operate such games. (But anyway China strictly manages releasing games)
- b4je7d7wb 4y ago
  Netherlands is perhaps the furthest in the process. I think at least lost ark is not available in steam for dutch users.
  - l3uwin 4y ago
    You know you went too far when the dutch are looking at you thinking 'hmm that's too much gambling' from their boat casino And they're correct lmao
  - braymundo 4y ago
    Correct. Diablo Immortal was not even launched here because of this.
AtlasBarfed 4y ago
Why isn't it, and the atrocious conduct of pat to win games a bigger deal here? Chest china has more sense and integrity than our government

vikingerik 4y ago

Well, there's the online-CCG industry. Magic and Hearthstone and the others are all lootbox, with varying allowances of being able to grind it in the free tier.

kriro 4y ago
I can only speak for MTG Arena. Been playing it 100% for free since a bit before DMU came out. I play pretty much the number of games that give me stuff, often 4 wins/day because I don't have time to play more. Mythic in Standard is possible (played cheap monoblue last season to diamond 1, mono black now almost mythic) and having some fun drafting. 0% need to invest any money. Obvioulsy I won't have all the stuff but that's fine. I'm ok with identifying one deck I like to play for standard and then just drafting until coins/gems run out (ideally never because the winrate is good enough). I also don't care at all about cosmetics and was happy to see there's even an option to turn them sort of off (hide alternate card styles). I still got quite a lot of free cosmetics as well. It is however interesting that they do have a pretty good value "first buy" option. I was always curious if it is priced so cheaply to get people from a "I'm a free player mindset" to...well payed once, might as well buy more now (+the friction of setting up payment is gone). I'm an avid board gamer and I can say very confidently that I would never get into any paper based CCG because the pricing/collection is just ridiculous to me. If it wasn't for the free to play online veryion, I wouldn't play magic (I did buy some of the stuff back in the college days but quickly realized what a money sink this would be). I do/did collected some LCGs and still rank Android Netrunner as one of the best gaming experiences in my life.

prawn 4y ago

I have a problem with the cosmetic stuff also as it's especially sticky for younger players. My son plays Fortnite and I think a lot about the variety of games I played while growing up, while a huge share of his gaming is the story-lite and constantly restyling Fortnite. I admire the strategy and the creativity that goes into reinventing it, but I also wonder if this will mean he misses both the diversity and also story-heavy classics from my childhood and onwards. All while chasing gold guns and dance moves.

noduerme 4y ago
The addiction to things like Fortnite is stronger than any addiction I've ever seen - and I mean this as a casino owner who watched and often banned people struggling with gambling addiction. It's of a different quality and on another level. Your blackjack addict is essentially a fully grown human who has transmuted his sense of rejection into a wish to lose on cards and thus gain a sense of release, or absolution, having been rejected one more time by the gods of fate. A Fortnite addict is on the make and believes in some ephemeral salvation that might be experienced by temporary success. The former knows when to quit, or at least is encouraged to do so. The latter has hope. The nastiest thing about gambling marketing is selling hope... it should be banned. Yet somehow when you can't win anything at all, it's fine to sell it.
- prawn 4y ago
  One thing that doesn't help is that Fortnite is 'juiced' beyond almost anything ever before it. So if you try to pitch your kids trying a different game (say, with a clever mechanic or thought-provoking story), it is harder for that game to compete.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - p1necone 4y ago
    Eh, I don't think arguing that really good animation/sound/art design being a bad thing somehow is a line of reasoning that results in sensible outcomes. Be wary of predatory monetization techniques yes, but a bunch of people playing Fortnite because it's a fun, well designed game is not a bad thing. (I deleted a comment where I worded the same thing much less eloquently. I'll keep the incredulous hostility to the one comment in this thread)

leetcrew 4y ago

doesn't fit the AAA definition, but counterstrike is very popular and has a f2p + cosmetic-only items for purchase. I can see how the mechanics around lootboxes specifically can be problematic, but overall, f2p + paid skins seems like a pretty good business model for a game. no one is priced out of the base game, which is a) just nice in general, and b) leads to a healthy playerbase size. the people that care the most end up funding the ongoing support, and the developer is incentivized to make the base game enjoyable enough to be worth purchasing skins for.

girvo 4y ago
CS:GO is a bad example with the Valve-ignored gambling that exists for it, due to the skins having real world monetary tradable value.