> there literally nothing I could say to you that would convince you that you’re wrong and that trans women are women and trans men are men. All I saw you use

> there literally nothing I could say to you that would convince you that you’re wrong and that trans women are women and trans men are men. All I saw you use is an argument that the impossibility of perfectly distinguishing between a male and a female meant that the question is unanswerable. I'm not only concerned about actual trans women, but primarily men just saying they're trans women when caught in inappropriate places, so that argument isn't totally addressing my concerns but if you were to try to convince me that trans women were entirely women I'd expect it to include an attempted proof that they exhibit female pattern sex criminality. Here's a thought experiment. Let's say you're somewhere where nobody has heard of gender, with a mixed-sex group of people. At a small distance you see a male walking by in a garment that is usually worn by a female. One of the females with you says "I'm glad that the changing norms now let a man wear what was once seen as female clothing!". 1) Do you say "You don't know that they aren't a woman!"? 2) Who's more progressive, you or her? 3) Who, if either of you, is creating a third gender category?